Questions on the Reflection 30BH

[VallAndMo]

Hello folks,

We are getting ready for the full-time RV lifestyle sometime next year, and we have decided to go with a 5th Wheel trailer plus a diesel 1-ton truck. Today we stumbled on the Grand Design RV manufacturer page (we had heard about GD before but never considered it in detail), and at first glance the Reflection 30BH is the one that interests us most: https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...loorplans/30bh

We have a few questions:

1) Is the 30BH recommended and/or warrantied for full-time use?

2) The 33.5" listed total length is with the rear (bunkhouse) slide retracted, right? How many ft does it add to the total length when extended?

3) The implicit cargo capacity of 2890lb (calculated by subtracting the 9105 UVW from the 11995 GVRW) seems a little flimsy, specially considering it will probably be further reduced by add-ons and options. Can it be boosted by custom-ordering (for example with more capable axles)?

4) We plan on a rear cargo tray so we can carry 2 bikes and a light (under 280lb) motorcycle. It's nice seeing the 30BH already has a 2" receiver in the rear, but wouldn't it interfere with the rear slide operation? Is there some kind of convenient solution for this interference (ie, some kind of "quick connect/disconnect", or some kind of telescoping hitch/tray)?

5) Thermal insulation on roof/floor is great, but the wall insulation seems weak at only R-9. Will the Arctic Four Seasons Protection Package boost it? To what R-number?

6) What does the fireplace uses, electricity/propane/either/... ?

Thanks in advance to everyone for their answer, specially the GDRV folks if they can provide more or less "official" answers to the above.

Cheers,
--
Vall & Mo.

[CWSWine]

I don't believe the 30BH or any of GD 5th wheels have a rear slide - I could be wrong but I have look at about every model GD currently makes at the 4 different dealers I have visited.

GD does have upgrade tire option but I don't think GD has option to upgrade axles.

The fire place is electric only - no propane option.

Edit -- Sorry, I'm wrong there is rear slide.

[LCBoyer]

Good luck on your search! Grand design customer service will answer all your questions! They have best customer service I have ever experienced

[perfpix]

We picked up our 30BH last month and have camped in it once. The rear slide bunk room sealed the deal for us. Its so unique and although its often just my wife and I and our two dogs my wife hated giving up extra beds for our grown children and grand kids. I was really looking for something closer to 30' than 40' to pull and the rear slide gives us the best of both worlds! The rear bunk room is a perfect spot for our dog crates when we don't have other adults or kids with us.

I pull the 30BH with my F350 6.2L gas with a 3.73 rear end. Although the gas engine does ok, I'd much prefer to have the diesel, but the truck came before the 5th wheel so I'll make due. A 1 ton diesel is perfect since diesel engines weigh a 600-800 more than the gas engine and eat into a 3/4 ton payload. It will tow the 30BH like a champ.

To answer your questions:
1. I believe Grand Design describes their Solitudes as full time or extended stay on their website. Not sure about the Reflection and never looked into it because we only use our part time. The reflection is a lighter weight model which means lighter weight materials and which maybe are less durable over the long run.

2. The rear bunk slide extends 3-4'. I'll measure mine later today to let you know for sure. I usually specify a 38' length when booking campsites just to be on the safe side.

3. The cargo capacity for this model is actually great for a lighter weight 5th wheel. I think it was the highest we saw looking at units under 12000lbs gross. Some we looked at had in the 1400lb range which means 900-1000 true capacity after options. Our UVW is 9346lbs with a listed cargo capacity of 2589lbs. I'm pretty sure the only option available for the 2016 30BH is the 2nd A/C. A call to the factory or your dealer could confirm that.

4. I think the rear receiver is rated for 300lbs. So a tray heavy duty enough to hold a motorcycle and 2 bikes would go over this rating I'm pretty sure. I think I've read that others have had their receiver reinforced by a mechanic/welder to handle a heavier load. But you have to be careful not to exceed your axle/tire ratings since the weight that far back will almost entirely be transferred to the axles/tires. The receiver is low enough so that a shallow tray will not interfere with the rear slide. I have a tray with 8in walls that I got for my truck and although I haven't had it on our 30BH I'm pretty sure it would work. Of course you would have to remove the motorcycle/bicycles or cargo before extending the rear slide. I can measure the distance from the receiver to the bottom of the slide for you.

5. Not sure on this one.

6. Fireplace is electric only and heats up the living room/kitchen nicely when its between 40-50 degrees out.

A couple of final comments, I would definitely go for the 2nd A/C unit, since it takes a single A/C a while to cool the camper when it gets above 80 degrees.

In the 2016 model the 2 steps to get into the bedroom are very high; 11-12 inches each. I didn't notice this so much when looking at the unit, but after using it the height of the steps really becomes apparent. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for us, but others have already commented it really makes it hard for them to get into the bedroom. I think I read somewhere that the 2017 models have 3 smaller steps, which would be much better. If you are concerned definitely check this out before buying.

Finally one really nice thing about the 30BH is its relatively spacious when the slides are in. You can get to the kitchen, most of the cabinets, the bathroom and the bedroom without having to extend the slides. On other units we looked at with kitchen islands you had to extend one or more slides to have any access to most of the coach.

So far we absolutely love our 30B! We are heading out this afternoon for another weekend of camping!

John

[CWSWine]

Well so I was wrong on not having a rear slide but let me add this:

When my grand kinds were younger I want the windows in the 5er looking out into our camp site instead of the neighbors. I could sit in the stadium or the dinning room table seating watching my favorite game and still be able to see the kids playing in our campsite.

[VallAndMo]

Hello CWSWine, John and LCBoyer,

GD does have upgrade tire option but I don't think GD has option to upgrade axles.

But the GVWR would remain the same with the upgraded tires if we keep the same axles, no? too bad :-/

The fire place is electric only - no propane option.

So it seems we will still need a Mr. Buddy or equivalent when boondocking... but anyway the fireplace is nice to use when camped with hookups and paying fixed rate.

Good luck on your search! Grand design customer service will answer all your questions! They have best customer service I have ever experienced

Thanks!

We picked up our 30BH last month and have camped in it once. The rear slide bunk room sealed the deal for us. Its so unique and although its often just my wife and I and our two dogs my wife hated giving up extra beds for our grown children and grand kids. I was really looking for something closer to 30' than 40' to pull and the rear slide gives us the best of both worlds! The rear bunk room is a perfect spot for our dog crates when we don't have other adults or kids with us.

Our idea is to use the bunkroom as an office (replacing the bunks with a desk and shelves). The fact there's a desk in there already will allow us a desk each.

I pull the 30BH with my F350 6.2L gas with a 3.73 rear end. Although the gas engine does ok, I'd much prefer to have the diesel, but the truck came before the 5th wheel so I'll make due. A 1 ton diesel is perfect since diesel engines weigh a 600-800 more than the gas engine and eat into a 3/4 ton payload. It will tow the 30BH like a champ.

Glad to hear it! Your F350 is an SRW, right? Can you tell us what year/model?

To answer your questions:
1. I believe Grand Design describes their Solitudes as full time or extended stay on their website. Not sure about the Reflection and never looked into it because we only use our part time. The reflection is a lighter weight model which means lighter weight materials and which maybe are less durable over the long run.

Makes sense. Would like to hear GDRV's "official" stand on the issue, tho... the Solitudes are a bit on the too large and too heavy side for us.

2. The rear bunk slide extends 3-4'. I'll measure mine later today to let you know for sure. I usually specify a 38' length when booking campsites just to be on the safe side.

Thank you, John for the help. Much appreciated! A real measure would be great.

3. The cargo capacity for this model is actually great for a lighter weight 5th wheel. I think it was the highest we saw looking at units under 12000lbs gross. Some we looked at had in the 1400lb range which means 900-1000 true capacity after options. Our UVW is 9346lbs with a listed cargo capacity of 2589lbs. I'm pretty sure the only option available for the 2016 30BH is the 2nd A/C. A call to the factory or your dealer could confirm that.

You are right. It's tough finding units with larger NCCs in the 12000lb GVWR range.

4. I think the rear receiver is rated for 300lbs. So a tray heavy duty enough to hold a motorcycle and 2 bikes would go over this rating I'm pretty sure.

You are correct, this is the tray we're thinking about: http://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Cargo-...w/MT70101.html
It's made of aluminum and weights only 40lb. Plus two 50lb bikes, and the 280lb motorcycle, would total 420lb on the receiver...

I think I've read that others have had their receiver reinforced by a mechanic/welder to handle a heavier load. But you have to be careful not to exceed your axle/tire ratings since the weight that far back will almost entirely be transferred to the axles/tires.

Good thinking. Would like to hear from GDRV whether reinforcing the hitch wouldnt void the warranty, tho, as long as the total axle/tire rating is not exceeded.

The receiver is low enough so that a shallow tray will not interfere with the rear slide. I have a tray with 8in walls that I got for my truck and although I haven't had it on our 30BH I'm pretty sure it would work. Of course you would have to remove the motorcycle/bicycles or cargo before extending the rear slide. I can measure the distance from the receiver to the bottom of the slide for you.

Again, good thinking and much obliged to you for making the measurement for us!

5. Not sure on this one.

OK, let's wait for someone from GDVR speaking out on this.

6. Fireplace is electric only and heats up the living room/kitchen nicely when its between 40-50 degrees out.

OK, thanks for the confirmation.

A couple of final comments, I would definitely go for the 2nd A/C unit, since it takes a single A/C a while to cool the camper when it gets above 80 degrees.

OK, noted. No option for a 15.5K BTU A/C, right? I ask because the generator we are planning would power a 15.5K A/C, but not two 13.5K ones...

In the 2016 model the 2 steps to get into the bedroom are very high; 11-12 inches each. I didn't notice this so much when looking at the unit, but after using it the height of the steps really becomes apparent. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for us, but others have already commented it really makes it hard for them to get into the bedroom. I think I read somewhere that the 2017 models have 3 smaller steps, which would be much better. If you are concerned definitely check this out before buying.

Thanks for the heads up. Should not be a problem for us as we're still in our early 50s and knees still mostly good. But will try to get a 2017 if it indeed solves this issue, for better resale value if nothing else.

Finally one really nice thing about the 30BH is its relatively spacious when the slides are in. You can get to the kitchen, most of the cabinets, the bathroom and the bedroom without having to extend the slides. On other units we looked at with kitchen islands you had to extend one or more slides to have any access to most of the coach.

We noticed that! And this is something we really value, as in some situations it's really inconvenient to extend the slides, ie when wallydocking and just stopping at the shoulder of the road for a quick toilet run.

So far we absolutely love our 30B! We are heading out this afternoon for another weekend of camping!

Glad to hear it! Have fun, and hope we can meet you on the road someday!

Well so I was wrong on not having a rear slide but let me add this:
When my grand kinds were younger I want the windows in the 5er looking out into our camp site instead of the neighbors. I could sit in the stadium or the dinning room table seating watching my favorite game and still be able to see the kids playing in our campsite.

Good thinking, CWSWine. Will keep this too in mind. Only one grandkid so far, but will definitely want to keep an eye on him...

Cheers,
--
Vall & Mo.

[Bamaman]

As far as a tow vehicle goes, any Reflection fifth wheel trailer can be towed by a properly equipped 3/4 ton truck. The 337's and 323BHS's will be pushing the upper limits, but the 30BH is substantially below what a 3/4 ton truck can tow. I have the diesel, and prefer it for any towing over 10,000 lbs.

To answer your questions:
1. Grand Design states their Solitudes are full time or extended stay units, however a number of people do go full time in Reflections. The frames are lighter on the Reflections, but I find them just fine for my use. The Solitudes would hold up better for those that did a bunch of towing, however many owners don't go all over the country.

2. The rear slide extends 3-4' and should be added whenever getting campground reservations.

3. The cargo capacity for this model is sufficient, as the chances are you won't be carrying so much stuff to go over those limits.

4. The frames on all fifth wheel trailers are relatively weak, and you'd have to have a qualified welder engineer a heavier hitch system to take on a motorcycle, etc. If you did have any frame problems, look for Lippert to disavow any warranty claims, however. I would be hesitant to make changes on this trailer because of the rear slider is already taxing the strength of the rear end.

5. The Arctic insulation package is on every trailer GD makes. Insulation is sufficient for most owners' use unless you're trying to camp in Minnesota or Alaska in January. We've always been comfortable in our 323BHS.

6. The 5000 btu fireplace is electric only, but it'll heat your living room fine. You still have a LP furnace to heat the whole trailer. We camp throughout the winter and just use a couple of small ceramic electric heaters for our bedroom & bunkhouse--have not even used the furnace.

I agree about going for the 2nd ducted A/C unit--especially for anyone in a hot climate or the deep South. Even if your future generator only has the power to run one a/c unit, the second unit is preferred as most owners will be hooked up most of the time to shore power.

[perfpix]

Hi Vall & Mo,

Here are the rear bunk room measurements:
From the exterior the bunk room slides out 36"
The distance from the top of the inside of the receiver to the bottom of the slide room lip is approx. 8.5" (I measured while the slide room was open but its pretty close to 8.5")

I also measured the inside of the bunk slide room:

The inside dimensions of the slide area is: 37 3/4"D x 71"H x 72"W.
The inside dimensions of the rest of the rear room is: 50"D x 86"H x 94"W
The rear slide remains about 2" into the room when fully extended so from the inside of the forward wall to the inside of the rear of the slide is around 85".

My F350 is a 2015 SRW Crew Cab with the 6.75' bed. Note that when I was shopping for a truck I was told that the only difference between the F250 and F350 was single "helper" leaf spring (one on each side) in the rear end. The helper spring doesn't engage until other springs are compressed a couple of inches so there is no difference in ride quality when extra spring is not engaged. Its very easy to see how this extra leaf springs works when you look above the rear wheel. The extra spring added about 600lbs to the payload and cost about $600 more than the F250.

Also in a discussion about ride quality in the Superduty forums a lot of people complain that the "snow plow package" make the ride of the F250/F350 really bad, because of the front springs are extremely stiff. My F350 doesn't have the snow plow package and I think the ride is great. Of course on bad roads it can get pretty bumpy but in general I love the way the truck rides. We found that the "deluxe" seats in the Lariat were much more comfortable than the XLT seats which is one of the reasons we went with the Lariat. I've put 32000 miles on the truck already and have towed a cargo trailer as far as from Boston to Miami and back and our previous smaller camper as far as Boston to Orlando and back. It's hands down the nicest vehicle I've ever owned.

I also have some time behind a 2014 F350 CC SRW Shortbed with the 6.7L diesel pulling a 10000' cargo trailer. The amount of power that truck has is really impressive and pulls 10,000lbs like it was nothing. It seldom dropped out of 6th gear even when going up hills at 65-70mpg. My gasser drops down to 3rd gear when I'm pulling the 30BH up a moderate hill at 60mph. I bought my F350 to pull our 6000lb bumper pull trailer and 5000lb cargo trailers. Had I known we would be in the position to upgrade to our 30BH this year I would have most definitely got the diesel.

Finally when we were looking at many 5th wheels we came across model that had a dedicated office in one of the side slides. The office included a couch, a good size desk, desk chair and a wall mounted TV behind the desk that could probably be used as a computer monitor. I can't recall what make it was but I remember thinking it would have been more that ideal if I was going to work on the road, and even spacious enough to have client meetings. If that peaks your interest I could try to find it online at the dealers we visited.

[VallAndMo]

Hello Bamaman,

Thanks for the detailed answers. More below:

As far as a tow vehicle goes, any Reflection fifth wheel trailer can be towed by a properly equipped 3/4 ton truck. The 337's and 323BHS's will be pushing the upper limits, but the 30BH is substantially below what a 3/4 ton truck can tow. I have the diesel, and prefer it for any towing over 10,000 lbs.

Great! Our ideia is to get a 1-ton SRW diesel... it's just a couple hundred dollars more expensive than a 3/4-ton, and it carries significantly more payload. As they say, "you can't have too much truck"... and this way we're ready if in a few years we decide to upgrade to a heavier trailer.

To answer your questions:
1. Grand Design states their Solitudes are full time or extended stay units, however a number of people do go full time in Reflections. The frames are lighter on the Reflections, but I find them just fine for my use. The Solitudes would hold up better for those that did a bunch of towing, however many owners don't go all over the country.

Our plans are for towing the trailer about 12,000 miles per year (although with more mileage on the truck alone, because it will be our daily driver).

2. The rear slide extends 3-4' and should be added whenever getting campground reservations.
3. The cargo capacity for this model is sufficient, as the chances are you won't be carrying so much stuff to go over those limits.

We're not so sure it's enough for us... not much experience ourselves (we only rented a few class Cs so far), but for FTing, we have been seeing folks talking about 3K *minimum*. And we plan on carrying the motorcycle and 6 AGM batteries plus solar panels for boondocking, so it all adds up...

4. The frames on all fifth wheel trailers are relatively weak, and you'd have to have a qualified welder engineer a heavier hitch system to take on a motorcycle, etc. If you did have any frame problems, look for Lippert to disavow any warranty claims, however. I would be hesitant to make changes on this trailer because of the rear slider is already taxing the strength of the rear end.

Yep, it is as we would have feared...

5. The Arctic insulation package is on every trailer GD makes. Insulation is sufficient for most owners' use unless you're trying to camp in Minnesota or Alaska in January. We've always been comfortable in our 323BHS.

Comfortable, no doubt. We camped in cold places (like Grand Canyon in late December, with lots of snowing) in a rental class C with only R-7 insulation in relative comfort. But the problem is, it wasted a lot of propane for heating... and would waste a lot of electricity (or fuel for the generator) in warm climate for the A/C, so we are trying to get a trailer with at least R-12 insulation minimum (including the sidewalls)

6. The 5000 btu fireplace is electric only, but it'll heat your living room fine. You still have a LP furnace to heat the whole trailer. We camp throughout the winter and just use a couple of small ceramic electric heaters for our bedroom & bunkhouse--have not even used the furnace.

Yes, the fireplace sounds it will be useful when we have hookups. Thanks for the confirmation.

I agree about going for the 2nd ducted A/C unit--especially for anyone in a hot climate or the deep South. Even if your future generator only has the power to run one a/c unit, the second unit is preferred as most owners will be hooked up most of the time to shore power.

Thanks, we will definitely try to get one, and possibly a 2nd generator (capable of working in tamdem with the 1st one) to power it all up.

Cheers,
--
Vall & Mo.

[Dave and Monica]

I don't know it you'll find any manufacturer with sidewall R12 or greater. I believe with most with laminated wall are R9 - R11. Even hung wall construction that some use (eg Cedar Creek) only indicate R9. The biggest heat loss with regards to the sidewalls will be all the windows even if they're dual pane.

Dave