Fire Extinguishers

**TucsonJim** · 07-29-2018, 09:31 PM

After reading through all of these posts, it wasn't clear if there are "RV specific" detectors and extinguishers and what the requirements are. I don't like to rely on "hearsay", so I have spent the last couple of hours researching the topic, and have some information to share.

The requirements for RVs sold in the United States are specified by the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA). I did not research to see if there are additional requirements for Canada other than what is listed below. The RVIA specifies the applicable codes that RV builders must adhere to. The relevant codes related to this topic are specified in the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) - NFPA 1192, 2018 edition. I was able to obtain a subscription to NFPA 1192, and found the sections that describe the requirements for these key items. In each of these, the NFPA lists Underwriter's Laboratory numbers (or equivalent) for compliance. Here is a listing of the relevant paragraphs and UL numbers:

Smoke/Fire Detectors NFPA 6.3.1.3 - ANSI/UL 217
Carbon Monoxide Detectors NFPA 6.3.2 - ANSI/UL 2034 or CSA 619
Propane Detectors NFPA 6.3.3.1 - ANSI/UL 1484
Fire Extinguishers NFPA 6.4.1.1 - ANSI/UL 299 or CAN/ULC-S508

Next, I went back to see if the smoke detectors I'd installed in my RV met ANSI/UL217. The information wasn't easy to find, but I was able to track it down. I had purchased three First Alert SA320CN detectors for my trailer. I went back to the Amazon page and found the information in a product information link to the user manual. The picture below is difficult to read, but after all, it is the "small print". To paraphrase, it says that all First Alert smoke/fire alarms meet the requirements of UL217.

I also checked my Kidde KN-COPP-B-LPM CO alarm, and Amerex B402 extinguishers and they are also in compliance with the standards. You may have to do some extensive digging though to find the certifications for products you're considering.

To summarize, there are specific requirements for RV applications, but it appears that most common alarms and extinguishers we'd purchase through retail establishments will meet the requirements. Take a minute to familiarize yourself with the requirements if you'd like to make sure your purchases are in compliance.

I'd encourage any owner with an interest in this topic to obtain a free subscription to the NFPA. There are may key topics covered in the document that are important to RV owners who may want to do their own modifications and projects.

Jim

**TucsonJim** · 07-30-2018, 02:43 PM

I did a little more research today to determine the standards that apply to coaches sold in Canada. The standards for extinguishers and alarms are specified by RVIA defers to NFPA who defers to ANSI/UL. In 2013, UL was accredited by the Standards Council of Canada (SCC) as a nationally recognized Standards Development Organization (SDO) able to develop National Standards of Canada (NSCs).

So those UL listings above apply in Canada also.

Jim

**colo native** · 07-30-2018, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cate&Rob

Jim - Interesting to note in your picture, the line of traffic driving by who didn't seem to share your (very valid) concern!

Rob

I am a retired Fire fighter and we hated it when people stopped because of the traffic problems and putting others in danger, BUT on the other hand SLOW DOWN and pay attention because if you hit and kill and Cop or firefighter in most states you could go to prison for life

**Cate&Rob** · 07-30-2018, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by TucsonJim

I did a little more research today to determine the standards that apply to coaches sold in Canada. The standards for extinguishers and alarms are specified by RVIA defers to NFPA who defers to ANSI/UL. In 2013, UL was accredited by the Standards Council of Canada (SCC) as a nationally recognized Standards Development Organization (SDO) able to develop National Standards of Canada (NSCs).

So those UL listings above apply in Canada also.

Jim

Hi Jim - Thanks for the continued research on how this fits with our Canadian requirements. Most appreciated

Rob

**Cate&Rob** · 07-30-2018, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by TucsonJim

Rob, one driver slowed down because he was obviously concerned, and the Illinois State Trooper started screaming at him for blocking traffic.

Jim

On our Canadian highways, it is common for the police to first stop all traffic and make everybody wait well back from the accident or fire so that they have the space for emergency response to sort things out without any interference, complications or additional danger from traffic passing close by.

Rob

**Steven@147** · 07-31-2018, 08:02 AM

Another thing to consider if an RV is on fire is the propane tanks. During the Bastrop Texas Wildfires you could hear from all over the neighborhood small explosions from propane tanks like on BBQ grills, the same kind on a lot of our RV's. The tanks have a pressure relief valve that is supposed to prevent the tank from exploding. During the investigation after the fire they found some of these exploded tanks and it appeared the relief valve had melted so fast it closed off and the tank didn't vent, it exploded. In some instances the tanks did vent like they are supposed to but became a blow torch. So my take on it would be like Jim's, get far away from it just in case. The toxic fumes from various items (like plastics) burning is a concern as well.

I had a picture of my friends shop that burned in that wildfire. There were transmission cases that totally melted into a puddle of aluminum with the steel gears stuck in the puddle. I saw some incredible things after that fire. Any Fire is not something to screw around with, get out, and get as far away as you can.

My heart goes out to those experiencing the current wildfires out west.

**Knightclimber** · 07-31-2018, 09:07 AM

I'm going to be a xxxx because I think there are way too many people who just don't understand fire. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CLEAR A PATH WITH AN EXTINGUISHER! I'm not making this up. This is what I do for a living. If the fire is bad enough that you can't crawl low and get out, the fire is to the point that an extinguisher will be utterly useless. If the fire is bigger than a trash can, the heat from the fire will actually burn the baking powder mix that comes out of the extinguisher. If you are clearing a path, you are probably already dead from the toxic fumes and heated gases that have seared your lungs. I hate being a xxxx about this but if you are counting on an extinguisher to get yourselves out you are mistaken. If you really can't get out the emergency windows, you may have to reconsider your floorplan and get one with a bedroom door. There are some out there or maybe someone could install one, I don't know. I don't know any firefighters who enjoy pulling burned bodies out and we get passionate about trying to educate people to avoid that outcome. sadly, people go by what they see on TV and movies and ignore what we say. One of my worst experiences was a lady I knew who kept a table in front of her front door blocking it from opening. She said it is just a card table and easy to toss out of the way in case of a fire. Sadly, she had a fire and after removing her from the house saw two perfect hand prints in the soot on that table. Made me feel sick.

**TucsonJim** · 07-31-2018, 09:48 AM

Knightclimber - I for one appreciate your advice. Get out, and get away. Sixteen years ago, my niece died in a trailer fire. The attached article doesn't go into specifics, but we assume she was trapped in a room after trying to find her son. The only window in the room was too small for her to exit. The FD didn't get either one of them out until they cut a hole in the wall. Fortunately, my great nephew Isiah survived the inferno. He has a lot of burn scars, but is otherwise healthy.

https://www.dailystandard.com/date/2.../headline1.htm

I can't emphasize enough. You'll never get out of that escape window if you don't practice it first.

Jim

**Cate&Rob** · 07-31-2018, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Knightclimber

I'm going to be a xxxx . . .

Knightclimber - I don't think that you are being a xxxx at all. And, I expect that most will agree with me. Discussions on this forum bring out expert and experienced advice on all sorts of topics. This is a topic where you have that kind of advice. Many of us thought we had a plan that would get us out the main door by clearing a path with a fire extinguisher. I no longer believe that is a viable plan in the event of a night time fire. Even the fire blanket idea that we discussed in posts 56 and 57 is questionable because of the time it would take to find and unpackage those blankets. What I am learning from this discussion is to have multiple loud alarms for as much warning as possible and go fast and go low out the door, wrapped in bedding if necessary. Thank you for explaining this in the terms necessary to make your point.

Rob

**BigGuy82** · 07-31-2018, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Knightclimber

I'm going to be a xxxx because I think there are way too many people who just don't understand fire. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CLEAR A PATH WITH AN EXTINGUISHER! I'm not making this up. This is what I do for a living. If the fire is bad enough that you can't crawl low and get out, the fire is to the point that an extinguisher will be utterly useless. If the fire is bigger than a trash can, the heat from the fire will actually burn the baking powder mix that comes out of the extinguisher. If you are clearing a path, you are probably already dead from the toxic fumes and heated gases that have seared your lungs. I hate being a xxxx about this but if you are counting on an extinguisher to get yourselves out you are mistaken. If you really can't get out the emergency windows, you may have to reconsider your floorplan and get one with a bedroom door. There are some out there or maybe someone could install one, I don't know. I don't know any firefighters who enjoy pulling burned bodies out and we get passionate about trying to educate people to avoid that outcome. sadly, people go by what they see on TV and movies and ignore what we say. One of my worst experiences was a lady I knew who kept a table in front of her front door blocking it from opening. She said it is just a card table and easy to toss out of the way in case of a fire. Sadly, she had a fire and after removing her from the house saw two perfect hand prints in the soot on that table. Made me feel sick.

I am a "xxxx" and I don't need to use foul language - be nice if everyone refrained from that and be even better if the moderators nixed it. As for your advice as a professional, it's interesting that the folks at my local fire department don't agree with you. Of course, anyone with a brain would exit the vehicle and not try to save it. I also believe that nobody here is advocating saving the rig. However, a fire extinguisher is a useful tool in a fire, hence the name "extinguisher". So, once again, I'll take my own council on this one and to other campers my advice is to have adequate fire protection in your rig.