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  1. #1
    Seasoned Camper FatTire's Avatar
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    Reliable trade in value

    Where can you get reliable numbers on the value of a trade in? I went to KBB and was satisfied with the number they gave me on my 2017 RAM 2500 - I listed all the options and was honest about the mileage and condition. The middle of the range for trade in was 37.5 K.

    Found a new 3500 at a dealer in a Rural area, went for a test drive while the salesman told me about recent customers only looking for trucks with gas engines - he stated he was new to selling cars. Decided to do the numbers dance. I was stunned at the offer they made which had a line item that subtracted over 6K for the 6.4 Hemi engine - the offer was 27K. The sales manager said that's what KBB does, and it also reflects what vehicles they think they can sell.

    I showed him the range I pulled up from KBB and told him that most likely, the quote guy was pulling numbers for a base model in poor condition, and then mentioned the stories the salesman told me about selling plenty of trucks with gas engines - 2 in the last 15 days. I also stated that I never saw a subtraction in value for a gas engine using KBB. Yes - its not a diesel, but KBB doesn't ding you for having a gas engine, your trade value is simply less. Told him it was a deal breaker - and he came up to 31K. I got up, said thanks, sorry, but we aren't going to be making a deal today, and walked out. Of course they have been calling me crying the blues.

    But boy, did I enjoy driving that Cummings 3500!

    Is KBB a valid place to get reliable trade in values? If not, then where?
    2018 Reflection 303 RLS
    2018 Ram BigHorn 3500 CTD

  2. #2
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    Just my .02
    I typically find the KBB is fairly accurate on values. Don't forget there is a Dealer Black Book that we typically aren't allowed to see and that is really where their trade in values come from.

    The perspective I try and keep when trading is: what is the starting/asking price of the new vehicle. Did the dealer quote you MSRP? If so, they should take maximum KBB trade in value. However if they are a dealer that claims invoice pricing, then they have to true up somewhere and that is usually in the trade in value that will be below KBB. I know it is easy to get flustered with dealers and their numbers game, but at the end of the day they need to make some money, I just don't want them to make it all in one day and all at my expense.

  3. #3
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatTire View Post
    Where can you get reliable numbers on the value of a trade in? I went to KBB and was satisfied with the number they gave me on my 2017 RAM 2500 - I listed all the options and was honest about the mileage and condition. The middle of the range for trade in was 37.5 K.

    Found a new 3500 at a dealer in a Rural area, went for a test drive while the salesman told me about recent customers only looking for trucks with gas engines - he stated he was new to selling cars. Decided to do the numbers dance. I was stunned at the offer they made which had a line item that subtracted over 6K for the 6.4 Hemi engine - the offer was 27K. The sales manager said that's what KBB does, and it also reflects what vehicles they think they can sell.

    I showed him the range I pulled up from KBB and told him that most likely, the quote guy was pulling numbers for a base model in poor condition, and then mentioned the stories the salesman told me about selling plenty of trucks with gas engines - 2 in the last 15 days. I also stated that I never saw a subtraction in value for a gas engine using KBB. Yes - its not a diesel, but KBB doesn't ding you for having a gas engine, your trade value is simply less. Told him it was a deal breaker - and he came up to 31K. I got up, said thanks, sorry, but we aren't going to be making a deal today, and walked out. Of course they have been calling me crying the blues.

    But boy, did I enjoy driving that Cummings 3500!

    Is KBB a valid place to get reliable trade in values? If not, then where?
    I follow the advice to keep the purchase and trade transactions separate. I first haggle over the price of the vehicle being vague on whether I have a trade-in or not. I absolutely don't tell them anything about the payment I'm willing to make or the down payment. And I insist on an out-the-door price, including all taxes and fees. No games.

    Once that process is over I then introduce the trade (if I have one). It's at this point I tell them what I want for the trade usually based on research from KBB or NADA guides. I also search for similar vehicles on dealer lots advertised on the internet to see what they are selling for as a barometer (so to speak) to see if what I want is feasible.

    I know the dealer is making money on the figures I settle on, well before looking at a vehicle. For the last two trucks, one was purchased in Birmingham, Alabama and the other in Jacksonville, Florida (I'm in the Florida panhandle near Pensacola). I didn't see either truck until I took delivery because I'd test driven them locally. Of course I gave the local guys multiple chances but they were ridiculously way off on the numbers. And there were extras like pin-striping, $200+ for nitrogen in the tires and all kinds of baloney. I actually laughed at one salesman when he tried to convince me of the value of nitrogen-filled tires.

    Don't fall in love with any one truck and stick to your guns. Contact internet sales departments with a truck on the lot you'd buy. Bet you get the deal you think is fair. If it's within a reasonable distance they may even bring it to you! (The Jacksonville dealership drove the dually to my house! That's how I got the picture in my profile.)

    Sorry--this is way longer than I intended.
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  4. #4
    Seasoned Camper FatTire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howson View Post
    I follow the advice to keep the purchase and trade transactions separate. I first haggle over the price of the vehicle being vague on whether I have a trade-in or not. I absolutely don't tell them anything about the payment I'm willing to make or the down payment. And I insist on an out-the-door price, including all taxes and fees. No games.

    Once that process is over I then introduce the trade (if I have one). It's at this point I tell them what I want for the trade usually based on research from KBB or NADA guides. I also search for similar vehicles on dealer lots advertised on the internet to see what they are selling for as a barometer (so to speak) to see if what I want is feasible.

    I know the dealer is making money on the figures I settle on, well before looking at a vehicle. For the last two trucks, one was purchased in Birmingham, Alabama and the other in Jacksonville, Florida (I'm in the Florida panhandle near Pensacola). I didn't see either truck until I took delivery because I'd test driven them locally. Of course I gave the local guys multiple chances but they were ridiculously way off on the numbers. And there were extras like pin-striping, $200+ for nitrogen in the tires and all kinds of baloney. I actually laughed at one salesman when he tried to convince me of the value of nitrogen-filled tires.

    Don't fall in love with any one truck and stick to your guns. Contact internet sales departments with a truck on the lot you'd buy. Bet you get the deal you think is fair. If it's within a reasonable distance they may even bring it to you! (The Jacksonville dealership drove the dually to my house! That's how I got the picture in my profile.)

    Sorry--this is way longer than I intended.
    I'm using the Employee Purchase price, so I already knew what I'd be paying for the truck and was getting a great deal. I played that card last after they were standing firm on their price which was 4K more than I wanted to pay. It also means that I don't pay destination charges, so it is a pretty good savings. They don't like people like me. So I let them look at the trade.
    Was really taken aback by what they offered thus my question on trade in value. And I did find it on the internet - willing to travel up to 200 miles. What dealer in Jacksonville? I live in the next county.


    And yes, I know from research that similar used trucks are selling for 42 - 46K in my area. Asking for 37 seemed fair to me.
    2018 Reflection 303 RLS
    2018 Ram BigHorn 3500 CTD

  5. #5
    Long Hauler
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    Dealer used car managers carry the Black Book in their back pockets. It's the lowest. Ask them to see the Black Book price, and they'll often show you the book value.

    I always carried a NADA Guidebook in my shirt pocket. The trade in value adding and subtracting for mileage and options is what I'd rather get for any trade in.

    My Honda Civic SI was recently totaled out (by my daughter's boyfriend.) I was looking to be paid at least halfway between NADA Trade and NADA Retail values. The insurance company did offer slightly more for the car. (Now the daughter's on permanent ankle express.)

  6. #6
    Long Hauler D2Reid's Avatar
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    KDD Nada guides and Edmunds. I plug the vehicles into these three, compare what they have to say. I then go to auto trader, the local newspaper, and other vehicle for sale places, take a note of what's being asked. Then sit down and figure out what I think I need out of the trade in.

    I really hate number games, I take a notebook and a calculator with me. I take my time doing the math, writing it down each time they change tactics from price, to payment, to down payment etc. Then I ask for all the add on charges, I really really hate having a piece of paper in my hand from the salesman showing a price then the finance guy comes in saying there are more add on's. I walk out of dealerships when they do that. I walk out of dealerships when I ask a question about a vehicle and the salesman makes something up because he doesn't know the answer, ok, it's a trap, I already know the answer, it's a just a test to see if they are conscientious.

    With just a little homework you can get an idea of what vehicles are normally worth, then if the numbers don't seem reasonable to you they aren't, like the man said, be prepared to walk out the door. You don't have to buy THAT truck and you certainly don't have to buy it TODAY.
    Dallas
    2017 Momentum 376TH, 2019 Ford F450, Dual Rear Wheel, 4x4, diesel.
    2015 Harley-Davidson Street, XG750

  7. #7
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatTire View Post
    I'm using the Employee Purchase price, so I already knew what I'd be paying for the truck and was getting a great deal. I played that card last after they were standing firm on their price which was 4K more than I wanted to pay. It also means that I don't pay destination charges, so it is a pretty good savings. They don't like people like me. So I let them look at the trade.
    Was really taken aback by what they offered thus my question on trade in value. And I did find it on the internet - willing to travel up to 200 miles. What dealer in Jacksonville? I live in the next county.


    And yes, I know from research that similar used trucks are selling for 42 - 46K in my area. Asking for 37 seemed fair to me.
    Coggin Buick GMC
    Anthony Gioia, [email protected] was the salesman I dealt with over the internet. (The DRW I bought was used.)
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  8. #8
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    So far I’ve bought 57 new cars/trucks since 1970. Last year alone I bought 3 new truck/cars, 2018 Nissan Leaf, 2018 Ford Focus Titanium and 2019 F350. Almost every time I bought a new vehicle I had a vehicle to trade in.

    I traded in my 2017 F350 for a 2019 F350. I usually buy my Ford’s when trading by using X-Plan. X-Plan removes new car negotiation out of the deal and I simply need to negotiate the trade in value.

    Recently I found KBB to be high on trade in value. For example KBB listed trade in on my 2017 F350 at $58.6k (55.8k-61.3k). The $58.6k was only $2,400 less than I paid for it new 2 years prior. CarMax Offer was only $49,000.

    The final negotiated trade in price was $54,212. After I traded it in they listed it for sale on their lot for $57,000 which was $1,600 LESS than KBB trade in price.

    I have access to dealer auction site from a immediate family member. This is a good place to establish a starting point for real value.

    What I like about X-plan is I can go to multiple dealers and just ask for best trade in price since new vehicle price and fees are fixed. X-Plan also allows you to stack most rebates and private cash offers on the deal. Then use the best trade in price offered and go back to a dealer of my choice to see if they will match.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
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  9. #9
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    FatTire, I sent you a PM,

    Jerry
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
    2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, 4,868 lb Payload, Bedrug Bedliner, Andersen Ultimate II Aluminum 5th wheel hitch
    http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/FLGANCSCsm.jpg

  10. #10
    Seasoned Camper FatTire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerryr View Post
    FatTire, I sent you a PM,

    Jerry
    Thanks - I replied - did you receive it?
    2018 Reflection 303 RLS
    2018 Ram BigHorn 3500 CTD

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