Broken Spring Hanger!

[Country Campers]

Bruce
Not a good place to list your phone number. Sometimes we get some un-friendly's here.

Brian

[Nuffsaid]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. A little background, I have been a certified structural steel welder and fabricator for over 35 years. I have worked along side of engineers and helped design products usually on the super stout side of things. My observations: I don't think the weld on the spring hanger contributes to the failure due to heat. I would be very interested to inspect the hangers to see if there are any tooling marks on the hangers at the failure point. A small line from a die on the hanger could easily contribute to a failure due to flexing similar to cracks and failures caused by weld undercut. Most structural steel is A36 or 36,000 psi steel. Most welding electrodes used in fabrication is 70,000 psi tensile strength. The weld is usually always stronger than the parent metal by design. Adding gussets to the hanger is a great idea to reduce flex. Tying both sides together is also a great idea to limit flexing. Understanding what is causing the flex, and what contributes to it is the hard part. The other factor is that when the weak link is repaired, something else usually becomes the weak link. Example:

I have a 2001 Holiday Rambler Alumascape 30RKD fifth wheel trailer. I don't know who made the frame components. The frame is a fabricated 8 inch I beam that is only about .135 thickness. Over the years, I have found structural cracks in the web of the I beam above the spring hangers due to the lower flange flexing. Two years ago when returning from an elk hunt towing a horse trailer behind the 5er with two horses in it, the right rear spring hanger tore loose from the frame! The spring hanger didn't fail in the same way that Rob's did. Since the frame was the weak link, the hanger tore the lower flange of the frame completely off about 3 inches in length! The failure was due to flexing, most likely during sharp turns which puts a huge side load on the frame components. Have you ever looked at your tires when making a sharp turn? I repaired the broken frame flange by inserting a like thickness piece of steel and 100% penetration welding it. I welded on a new hanger and installed new leaf springs. I still need to reinforce the frame to keep the next failure from happening. On my list to do is to add a full length vertical gusset above each spring hanger that goes from the bottom flange to the top flange of the I beam. Then I will weld a piece of 2x2 angle iron from the outside of the rear spring hanger to the outside of the opposite side spring hanger. This will box the spring hanger on the back side and reduce frame flex. I might do this in all 3 hanger locations. 2001 was the last year Holiday Rambler used a 8 inch I beam on this model of trailer. In 2002 they increased the size to a 10 inch.

With my experience in structural fabrication, any time a load is placed below or above an I beam, a full length vertical gusset is added to transfer the load to both flanges of the I beam. In all of the trailers I looked at when considering my Solitude purchase, the only manufacturer that uses the proper gusset is Northwood on the Artic Fox trailers. Lippert uses a bandaid type gusset in the form of a piece of flat bar welded from the outside of the bottom flange to the web at about a 45 degree angle. Northwood also uses a much heavier frame than any other manufacturer. Based on these structural differences, Artic Fox was my first choice, but happy wife, happy life, she didn't like the Artic Fox floor plans, so I bought a Solitude.

Several months ago I did some work on a customers 34 foot Jayco 5th wheel to make it ride more level with his new truck. Jayco on his model year had an adjustable spring hanger that allows raising the ride height of the trailer by using different spring bolts holes and equalizer bolts holes. This hanger assembly is a formed piece of 1/4 inch steel that is bent and full length of both sets of springs. This piece is welded to the frame of the trailer. Very good design and maybe something I will consider when re-engineering my old trailer frame.

[HOWITTRO]

Hi Rob
Your video link is excellent and I would like to learn from your shackle failure experience. I have been concerned about our Lippert Equa-Flex suspension system for no other reason other than the feedback I get on this forum. The Lippert feedback indicates the system is solid and we have had no suspension issues to date so perhaps my concern is unfounded. We have a 2018 GD Solitude 310GK and I will have to check the suspension for cracks etc once we get back to Florida. We leave Ontario Canada in late January 2019.
How do you feel about adding the Morryde X type cross member between all 3 shackles. It bolts into the existing frame hanger and is designed to provide added lateralsupport resulting in greatly reduced frame stress. All 3 axle and spring shackles were flexing sideways in your video which has to result in cracked welds over time. I also am thinking about swapping out my shackle bolts and replacing with wet bolts so I know they are being lubricated, although Lippert states this is unnecessary. The last thing I think I will do is purchase an extra spring assembly in the event of failure in the future.
I contacted Morryde re there IS system but it is really expensive. Anyway your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you
Bob

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Rob
Your video link is excellent and I would like to learn from your shackle failure experience. I have been concerned about our Lippert Equa-Flex suspension system for no other reason other than the feedback I get on this forum. The Lippert feedback indicates the system is solid and we have had no suspension issues to date so perhaps my concern is unfounded. We have a 2018 GD Solitude 310GK and I will have to check the suspension for cracks etc once we get back to Florida. We leave Ontario Canada in late January 2019.
How do you feel about adding the Morryde X type cross member between all 3 shackles. It bolts into the existing frame hanger and is designed to provide added lateralsupport resulting in greatly reduced frame stress. All 3 axle and spring shackles were flexing sideways in your video which has to result in cracked welds over time. I also am thinking about swapping out my shackle bolts and replacing with wet bolts so I know they are being lubricated, although Lippert states this is unnecessary. The last thing I think I will do is purchase an extra spring assembly in the event of failure in the future.
I contacted Morryde re there IS system but it is really expensive. Anyway your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you
Bob

Hi Bob,
I have a few thoughts on your questions (surprise . . . surprise)

No one has reported a hanger failure on a Solitude, on this forum. All the reports have been Reflections. Usually the right rear hanger on a 303RLS or similar. LCI has a couple of different hanger lengths. The ones that have been breaking are the long ones. Why the right rear? . . . we haven't figured this out yet. I don't know how these hangers compare to Solitude hangers.

The MORryde cross braces don't fit well with the Correct Track adjusters on the outer hangers. I think some have figured out how to accommodate the Correct Track hex plate adjuster . . . but it is not a straight forward bolt on.

There are three types of spring eye bushings. White nylon (good for about 2000 miles). Grey plastic "Never Fail" bushings which are supposed to run dry (apparently, grease "may" deteriorate the plastic/nylon/delrin/whatever it is). Bronze which will last the longest if they have greased wet bolts.

Based on various discussions on this forum, I now carry a spare spring as well .

Rob

[Cate&Rob]

@Nuffsaid - Thank-you for taking the time to post your detailed insight into the how and why of this. As an engineer, I learned a long time ago to go talk to the fabricators before I designed anything that they had to build. There is a funny story to go with that learning . . . but, I digress.

Attached are pictures of a new LCI hanger. Unfortunately, it was painted when I received it. Why would you paint something designed to be welded on . . . but, again, I digress.

There are no tooling marks that show though the paint. The material is 0.220 thick. No way to know what kind of steel, but the part appears to be cold formed.

The fatigue break on my hanger was definitely beside the weld. The weld looked perfect. Pictures on the first posts of this thread.

Your thoughts?

Rob

[Nuffsaid]

Rob,

Several things. First, the new hanger shows no tooling marks, so maybe a tooling problem that could have caused failures was corrected. Pure speculation. With a thickness of .220, it makes me wonder if .250 would hold up better. I will try to measure some of my hangers. I agree with you on the paint, probably powder coating, while good for corrosion protection, a pain to weld through and causes nasty gasses when super heated. Hangers that I have purchased have all been raw steel. You stated that there was no undercut on the hanger portion of the weld, this is good, because undercut in almost a guarantee that the part will fail at some point. Just out of curiosity, how tight were the spring eye bolts on the failed hanger? Loose could allow a lot of excess flexing. I am leaning hard towards welding a 2x2x1/4 angle on the vertical plane of the rear hanger and spanning to the opposite side. This will effectively box one half of the hanger on each side of the frame and add a stiffener across the frame. Have you ever made a very sharp turn on pavement with your trailer and watch how the tires/wheels lean and put tremendous pressure on the sidewalls? On trailers without a lot of weight on the tires, the tires will skid when turning sharply. It would be interesting to place a magnetic based dial indicator with a Go Pro to record movement and see how much takes place.

[Cate&Rob]

Nuffsaid - If you go all the way back to post 1 of this thread, you will see the “V Clip” that LCI uses to reinforce these hangers. Similar to the reinforcement plan that you describe. The sideways load when turning may be a factor, but I think the over-the-road constant flexing as shown in the video is a greater factor. The hanger breaks were the last bit of a long term fatigue failure, not a twisting or tearing from overload while turning.

Rob

[Nuffsaid]

Rob, I agree that the failure is from fatigue, but why is there such a high failure rate at the right rear, including my old Alumascape? Slow turning is easy to see the stresses imposed. Turning at speed is not. If the turning is what causes the flexing and fatigue, then each time a turn is made, the spring hangers would flex in one direction or another, then when the trailer is straightened out, the load would be removed and the hanger would flex back to the neutral position. Repeat, failure is inevitable. Stop the flex and the tires will scuff resulting in tire wear, but no structural failure. In my opinion, this could account for a lot of unexplained tire wear, more so than poor alignment. I have a horse trailer that I built back in the early 90's. No hanger failures, (I overbuild things) the right rear tire is always worn before the others (scuffing from turning) I tow this trailer a fair amount behind my Alumacape, so when the back of the 5er swings wide during a turn, it scuffs the crap out of the horse trailer tires. In a properly designed suspension, there should be very little side to side movement running straight down the road unless the axles are out of alignment, IE improperly welded spring hangers not square to the frame of the trailer and pin.
I have no problem with the V piece of steel welded into the spring hanger, it will work, but I really think it is the easiest way to reinforce the hanger, not necessarily the best way. My personal favorite would be to box in the hangers or better yet, if the hanger was constructed to be rotated 90 degrees so that the part that is normally on the top against the frame would be to the rear forming a C , this way the hanger could be bent from a simple piece of plate to whatever dimension was needed, the top legs would be welded directly to the lower flange of the I beam or in your case the tube steel. If the hanger came close to the outer edge of the tube steel radius, you would have a prep for a flare bevel weld and would yield close to 100% penetration. Oh yeah, this would be proper construction, not RV construction, LOL

[gbkims]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I still need to reinforce the frame to keep the next failure from happening. On my list to do is to add a full length vertical gusset above each spring hanger that goes from the bottom flange to the top flange of the I beam. Then I will weld a piece of 2x2 angle iron from the outside of the rear spring hanger to the outside of the opposite side spring hanger. This will box the spring hanger on the back side and reduce frame flex. I might do this in all 3 hanger locations. 2001 was the last year Holiday Rambler used a 8 inch I beam on this model of trailer. In 2002 they increased the size to a 10 inch.

I liked JBarca's (at Sunline Owners Club) writeup on his travel trailer frame repair & reinforcement.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...y-17444-4.html

[bruce.a.anderson]

New hanger from Lippert is being replaced as I write this.
The old spring hangers broke off at the base of the "U" leaving the base of the "U" still welded to the frame.
Notice the gap between the base of the hanger, still welded to the bottom of the frame, and the side of the frame. About a 2" long tear at the bottom of the frame rail. Is this a frame failure? 3 year warranty?
The "U" bottom has to be jacked up to close the gap on the frame and welded before the hanger can be attached.
Hopefully the repair will be successful. Heading to an alignment shop on Monday and then off to Quartzsite!
See you there.
Bruce

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