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Thread: True 1/2 ton towables

  1. #41
    Thanks for the info on Costco and EEA! I am also looking at HPE employee (X-Plan) discounts as an option. My wife has a friend who is the finance Mgr for a area Ford dealership - we are working through what the discounts will be - so far we are at about $4,500. Btw, I am also trying to decide if I want the FX4 Off Road Package, which is a $770 option. Though this will probably enhance resell value, I feel like it will also introduce some weight. The main thing I will get is skid plates, hill descent control, different front end shocks, and a FX4 DECAL (wouldn't want to miss out on that!).

  2. #42
    Site Sponsor MtnGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctdecuir View Post
    I just can't see my wife driving a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck around running errands in Houston, especially when we will be trading her 2-door convertible in on the truck! I drive a Ford Edge company car which I can't replace until I retire (3 more years!). So I am close to placing an order for a 2018 F150 Supercrew with the following configuration - I chose most of the options that HDPP would allow, and the MSRP is $58K:

    - F150 SuperCrew Lariat Package with Equipment Group 500A (no other packages are available when HDPP is selected!)
    - Heavy Duty Payload Package (includes Max Tow Package and 3.73 Gears)
    - #7850 GVWR Package
    - 157" Wheelbase (6.5' Bed)
    - 3.5L Ecoboost V6
    - 10-Speed Auto Trans
    - 18" Heavy Duty Wheels w/LT Tires
    - 4x4/FX4 Offroad Package
    - 36 Gallon Fuel Tank
    - Power Folding Trailer Mirrors
    - Reverse sensing
    Consider this: An F350 CCSB is only 6.3" longer and .1" wider than an F150 CCSB. The cab sheet metal is identical this year.

    The Super Duties include full floating rear axles where the weight is supported by the hubs........similar to road tractors axles. The F150 has a semi-floating rear axle where the weight is carried by the axle.....similar to cars axles. But, I am not sure what axle the HDPP includes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ctdecuir View Post
    Unfortunately, I won't know the actual payload rating of the Truck until it is delivered to the dealership - but I am hoping to get 2400 - 2600 Lbs Payload. I put this out on the Blog due to a lot of comments and questions about how to order a HDPP F150
    My previous 2006 F150 showed almost a 2000 payload on the title, but the actual payload weight was closer to 1200 lbs. with me in the driver's seat and a few personal items in the cab and bed. The payload really takes a hit when going to a more expensive model and options.

    You need to figure up the possible pin weight of a 29RS ready to camp (~2000 lbs ??), the 5th wheel hitch, all passengers and cargo, and see if 2400 lbs of payload will be enough.......if indeed that is the actual payload.

    With all of that said, an F150 with the HDPP might actually have more cargo carrying capacity than an F250 with the 6.7 diesel, as the diesel is a heavy bugger.
    Chap, Joy, and furbaby Sango
    2017 F350 diesel, 4x4, crew cab, short bed
    2017 Reflection 337RLS
    B&W slider for Ford 5th wheel prep package


  3. #43
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctdecuir View Post
    So - I am still targeting the 29RS...
    You might want to a least "wander through" the 303RLS.
    Compared to the 29RS, the windows move to the campsite side and you gain a big pantry, but you lose the outside TV/fridge.
    303 overall length is only 18" longer. You will probably pack the same amount of camping stuff in either trailer. The additional 650 dry weight and 150 pin weight don't push this trailer beyond the capability of the Heavy Payload F150 . . . particularly with the 2018 upgrades.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel and their kitty Gracie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS #792
    2014 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 Crewcab with Max Tow and Heavy Payload pkgs
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ctdecuir View Post
    Thanks for the quick response, Rob! Actually, I have been following a lot of your comments and those from others who tow with F150's for some time now as part of my overall research. I have used several weight calculators and have read up a lot on payload, hitch/tongue/pin weight, truck and trailer dry/wet weight ratings, etc (whew - this is not for the squeamish). However, it is a large expense and I want to get it right. I have a ton of respect for all the contributors on this forum that use 3/4 and 1 Ton TV's - it makes perfect sense to me, and it seems there would be less issues with sway on a 5th Wheel. However, given my situation the F150 is most practical - at least until I retire. Most of our travels will be local (in Texas - so I will need 2 healthy AC's), but I also want to make a couple of runs up into the Rockies and maybe the Blue Ridge Mountains over the next few years. Once I pull the trigger and get the Truck delivered I will post the actual payload. The one thing that I am most nervous about is the "average" pin weight on a loaded 29RS.
    I live in Texas myself and have a '17 F150 and the 29rs. The weight of the RV is not an issue nor is pulling power. The issue for me is sway caused by the winds. As you are aware the wind likes to blow in Texas and anytime the wind is above 20 mph I am not comfortable pulling the 29rs as side winds blow me all over the road. I go to Colorado several times a year myself and would never take this combination upon Raton Pass as the winds there can be ferocious. I have bought the shorter 220rk which I will pick up next Monday. It's 26 1/2' vs the 32' of my 29rs and will make a big difference due to less sq footage for side wind loading and the lighter weight will help with fuel economy in mountainous terrain
    Donald AKA johndeerefarmer

    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220rk VIN# 573FR2728J3406264

    2016 Reflection 29RS VIN# 573FR322XG3305717

    2017 Ford F-150 4x4 CREW Lariat 502A, Caribou, with chrome package, 3.5L Ecoboost with 10 speed, 6.5' bed, max trailer tow, 3.55 e locker, tow mirrors, 18" GY Wrangler AT's, Llumar tint, B&W turnover ball, Super Springs, Weathertech mats,

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by johndeerefarmer View Post
    I live in Texas myself and have a '17 F150 and the 29rs. The weight of the RV is not an issue nor is pulling power. The issue for me is sway caused by the winds. As you are aware the wind likes to blow in Texas and anytime the wind is above 20 mph I am not comfortable pulling the 29rs as side winds blow me all over the road. I go to Colorado several times a year myself and would never take this combination upon Raton Pass as the winds there can be ferocious. I have bought the shorter 220rk which I will pick up next Monday. It's 26 1/2' vs the 32' of my 29rs and will make a big difference due to less sq footage for side wind loading and the lighter weight will help with fuel economy in mountainous terrain
    Thats what happens when you over load a light truck. Ford goofed up IMO by lowering the weight of the truck to gain MPG. The lighter the tow vehicle the more unstable it will be with heavier trailers. I'm guessing you're overloaded as well. Running P rated tires?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by goducks14 View Post
    Thats what happens when you over load a light truck. Ford goofed up IMO by lowering the weight of the truck to gain MPG. The lighter the tow vehicle the more unstable it will be with heavier trailers. I'm guessing you're overloaded as well. Running P rated tires?
    I run LT tires. The P metric are way to squishy for even pulling a small trailer.

    My 29rs is about 1600 lbs pin weight empty. I am not sure about loaded but probably near 2000 lbs. The 220rk will be 400 lbs lighter on the pin so this should also help a lot. My truck has a payload of 1780 lbs as it's a max tow not a HDPP.

    My '13 King Ranch was 700 lbs heavier than this truck and it did handle in the wind better both loaded and unloaded. I never towed a fiver with it so I can't make a direct comparison there.

    I had airbags on the truck but removed them due to bone jarring bumps on railroad tracks when pulling a 24' aluminum trailer with two RZRs on it. I installed Supersprings but haven't towed that trailer yet to see if the issue is taken care of.
    Donald AKA johndeerefarmer

    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220rk VIN# 573FR2728J3406264

    2016 Reflection 29RS VIN# 573FR322XG3305717

    2017 Ford F-150 4x4 CREW Lariat 502A, Caribou, with chrome package, 3.5L Ecoboost with 10 speed, 6.5' bed, max trailer tow, 3.55 e locker, tow mirrors, 18" GY Wrangler AT's, Llumar tint, B&W turnover ball, Super Springs, Weathertech mats,

  7. #47
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    JDF - It will be interesting to learn if the 220RK tows much differently than the 29RS. I can't say that I notice any significant sway in cross winds or when passed by a semi. I can feel that the side push is there, but it is comfortably handled. I wonder how much of this difference is in the suspension of the max payload version?

    I don't buy the "too small a truck" story for the smaller 5th wheels. (Sorry goducks14 ). In round numbers, my F150 weighs 6,000 lbs and my 303 weighs 10,000 lbs with 2,000 lbs on the pin. so, when towing . . . the truck is carrying about 8,000 lbs and the trailer suspension is carrying about 8,000 lbs. This is a better weight balance than many larger TVs towing much larger 5th wheels.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel and their kitty Gracie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS #792
    2014 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 Crewcab with Max Tow and Heavy Payload pkgs
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    JDF - It will be interesting to learn if the 220RK tows much differently than the 29RS. I can't say that I notice any significant sway in cross winds or when passed by a semi. I can feel that the side push is there, but it is comfortably handled. I wonder how much of this difference is in the suspension of the max payload version?

    I don't buy the "too small a truck" story for the smaller 5th wheels. (Sorry goducks14 ). In round numbers, my F150 weighs 6,000 lbs and my 303 weighs 10,000 lbs with 2,000 lbs on the pin. so, when towing . . . the truck is carrying about 8,000 lbs and the trailer suspension is carrying about 8,000 lbs. This is a better weight balance than many larger TVs towing much larger 5th wheels.

    Rob
    I did a lot of research on the differences between the HDPP and max tow and about all that could affect the handling would be the shocks and springs. I put better shocks on it as well as the Super Springs. This only leaves the coilovers up front which are a higher capacity on the HDPP. I believe the heavier suspension of the HDPP would have helped with the bouncing that the entire truck did on certain occasions but would not help with the sway.
    My first issue with sway was caused by my Andersen hitch. I didn't have the bolt torqued down AFTER I hitched up. This caused a continuous tail wag. After talking to Anderson I now torque it after hitching. The issue isn't semi's passing just gusts of wind. A gust of 25 mph from the side causes the RV to sway- so much to the point that I let off the gas and wait for it to stop. I have been towing for over 35 years but haven't been scared until this happened a few times- so much to the point that I refuse to tow it anymore if the wind is over 10 mph. The sway that I feel is that of the rear of the RV moving from side to side, not the truck and RV in unison as happens when a semi blows by.

    I had a 17 Super Duty for three months and it towed the 29rs without any issues but had to sell the truck due to the steering. My only option is the EPS system which affect my torn tendons the least.

    Between the bouncing and sway issues I chose to buy a smaller fiver. My girlfriend is now living in my 29rs so it wasn't wasted or traded at a loss. I am looking forward to towing the 220rk and seeing how it does.
    Donald AKA johndeerefarmer

    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220rk VIN# 573FR2728J3406264

    2016 Reflection 29RS VIN# 573FR322XG3305717

    2017 Ford F-150 4x4 CREW Lariat 502A, Caribou, with chrome package, 3.5L Ecoboost with 10 speed, 6.5' bed, max trailer tow, 3.55 e locker, tow mirrors, 18" GY Wrangler AT's, Llumar tint, B&W turnover ball, Super Springs, Weathertech mats,

  9. #49
    Very interesting information, Gentlemen! This is extremely helpful. I have to say that I am now also comparing the F150 HDPP with a F250 Gas - the Diesel is way too heavy, and the payload is actually a bit better on the F150 HDPP. The reason for this is that we may be open to a larger 5ver in the future and I don't want the TV to be too much a limiting factor. The specs on the F250 CC 4x4 w/6.2L Gas and 4.30 ratio is pretty impressive, though it is 6.3" longer and 4" taller than the F150 Screw. This a great learning experience, and thank all of you for the input you have provided! This blog is a great source of real experience that can't be beat... Btw, the 2018 F250 won't be released until later this year/early next year, so if we decide to go that way, I may opt for a 2017 or used one. Here is an attached table that I put together to show the differences between the F150 HDPP and the F250 CC Gas - let me know if this doesn't come through.

    TV.jpg
    Last edited by Ctdecuir; 09-13-2017 at 02:54 PM.

  10. #50
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Hi Ctdecuir,

    Your attachment is readable . . . but just barely . . . maybe there is a way to post with better resolution?

    I think that towing a 10,000 lb (or bigger) trailer with the 6.2L gas engine is not going to be a comfortable experience. I have posted the attached torque curve comparison chart before and it is dated because the Ecoboost now has 50 more ft-lbs of torque than this graph shows. From this, you can see that the 6.2L gas has significantly less mid-range torque and is going to be doing a lot of shifting to stay near its narrow peak torque when power is required. And, it is hauling around a significantly heavier truck for all those non-towing miles.

    At higher elevations, the naturally aspirated 6.2L is going to lose significant horsepower. The Ecoboost stays the same as at sea level because there is sufficient boost reserve to do this.

    I realize that my F150 Ecoboost is towing at its rated maximum and it is comfortable doing this. It is also a great daily driver for the other 80% of the time that we are not towing. Essentially sport suspension with 0-60 in less than 6 sec .

    As I have said before, if my truck couldn't do the job, the next step up (in my opinion) is a diesel one ton. The other gasoline engines can't compete with the Ecoboost and the 3/4 ton is just a de-rated one ton. Might as well get the real thing for only a few dollars more than the 3/4 ton. (But . . . significantly more dollars than an Ecoboost 150 !)

    Rob
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Cate & Rob
    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel and their kitty Gracie)
    2015 Reflection 303RLS #792
    2014 F150 EcoBoost 4x4 Crewcab with Max Tow and Heavy Payload pkgs
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada

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