Another Almost Catastrophic Failure!

[Paul & Deb]

Hey Paul,

I know that way back on the previous thread, we talked about and I think you checked that the terminals on the coach side of the twist lock are tight . . . but this is a good reminder from Chuck . . . this is one of the first things to check. I am sure we can gather together enough ideas to solve this at the Rally. See you guys when you get here.

Rob

Well we arrived at tonight's stop and pulled it apart and everything is nice and tight.

Just throwing this out there...

If the open neutral is really the problem (and damaged electronics sure point this issue) - then you should still experience issues even when plugged into 30A service.

Not the 240v over-voltage issues, but your stuff would:
(1) not work if the neutral was completely open, or
(2) things would blip off/on if it were just a poor connection and intermittently open.

If your using all of the same equipment to connect to 30A shore power (just adding the adapter) and you never have problems - it might just be plain bad luck plugging into faulty shore power 50A receptacles!

This stumps me as well because I am now plugged into the power pole using the 15 amp / 120 outlet but, to lptxtandem's point, that is still connects to the trailer via the Furrion camlock connector.

AND, BTW, one of my original symptoms was things blipping on and off and, like a big fool, instead of running right outside and shutting the power off at the pole, I watched it until things got out of hand.

Man I love my trailer. It's clear I've put a ton of money and time into it but this issue has me so damn pissed and confused.

I'm praying for my hero's to rescue me

[orbiker]

Paul

Did you have any issues at all while you have been boondockin"?

[Paul & Deb]

Paul

Did you have any issues at all while you have been boondockin"?

Nope. Also, when we first had the problem the other night I thought for certain it was related to the busted up 50 amp outlet on the post so I used the 30 amp outlet but I still used my 50 amp cord and I didn't have a problem. Since then I have gone to the 120 outlet and used an adapter on the trailer side (camlock) to my heavy duty extension cord.

Oh, and no issues when running of the generator or the inverter that I've seen. But I also have been trouble free for a full year and many, many camping nights with FHU and dry camping.

[orbiker]

So, we arrived at our night stop at the KOA in Cheyenne and I plugged into the power post and went about setting up. I went into the trailer to reset the fridge to "auto" (we have been boondocking for 9 days and I had it set to LP) and I noticed it wouldn't switch. I wasn't getting any codes so I assumed there was a problem with my 120. I keep a night light plugged in the island GFI outlet as an immediate visual check for 120 and sure enough, it wasn't on. So I went out to the power post to check my SurgeGuard and it was off. Huh? Why would that be? I checked the breaker and it was on. I fooled around some more and it appeared the outlet was cracked and when I jiggled the plug it would power the SurgeGuard and then it would go out again. So, I saw a KOA employee in a cart and asked him to come over and I showed him the plug. His comment was that they needed to do some repairs in the off season. I tried plugging the SurgeGuard back in and it seemed to work and stay on.

WHAT A DOPE I AM!

Anyway, I go back into the trailer to try again to switch the fridge and it worked for a second then stuff inside started beeping as though power was coming on and going out, like the microwave and a ipod charger that is plugged in and, of course, my night light.

I SHOULD HAVE PULLED OUT OF THE POWER PST RIGHT AWAY BUT NO!

I kept fooling around checked fuses and breakers in the panel and all of a sudden I smelled smoke and I pulled the bottom drawer out of the hutch and sure enough, there was smoke and that distinctive electrical short smell.

Finally I shut the main breakers and ran out and pulled out of the power pole.

Jim (Hinkle) and I pulled everything apart ans tested everything we could think of and no "smoking" gun!

The results of all this sounds so reminiscent of my problem almost exactly 1 year ago (https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...ical-Help-ASAP)

I ended up tracing that to a faulty Camco Dogbone connector that, when my power cord was plugged into, resulted in an open neutral.

The only thing I can think now is the busted power post outlet may have caused the same condition.

BTW, this even again cost me a burned out fireplace and coffee maker but my television survived.

I spent the night with everything out of my pass through and the wall off and the power panel pulled out and 2 fire extinguishers standing by (thanks Jim).

I ended up plugging into the 30 amp outlet on the post and everything seems okay but I'm really, really pissed right now and I can't prove anything!

I'm mostly venting but if anyone has any thoughts, I'm happy to hear them.

Paul

If you re-read your original post, it sure sounds like the post 50 amp outlet did your damage.

What fault did the Surgeguard show?

[TucsonJim]

The problem repeated after Paul went to another campground. My suspicion is that there is an issue with the transfer switch causing a contact problem which results in an open neutral. But I just don't know how to check an intermittent problem like this that could result in a fire during the troubleshooting process.

Jim

[Luv2Ski]

Paul, Rob

Perhaps when checking out the neutral, you will want to lake a look at the neutral & ground bars in the load center. I ended up torquing mine down as it seemed a bit loose.

[lptxtandem]

The problem repeated after Paul went to another campground. My suspicion is that there is an issue with the transfer switch causing a contact problem which results in an open neutral. But I just don't know how to check an intermittent problem like this that could result in a fire during the troubleshooting process.

Jim

Did he use the SafeGuard? Were the events the same? It might be the SafeGuard!

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[offtohavasu]

As mentioned earlier, it's a possibility of two events causing the one catastrophic event. Paul isn't switching the neutral on the inverter, only the power leg. So when he connects to park that has an issue, the Sureguard isn't seeing the problem because it see a neutral. And since some inverters bond netural and ground in the inverter, it's seeing a return path via ground. As Rob and I have discussed before, the neutral needs to be switched with the inverter as well. That's why generator/shore power transfer switches transfer the neutral as well.

[TucsonJim]

I'm sure Paul will weigh in. It was determined that the power cord was the source of the problem. It was worn out and was replaced.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

Not meaning to steal Paul's storyline, but lots of ideas got put together at the Rally . . . and with significant "consultation" from some who couldn't make the Rally, I think Paul's electrical problem is solved.

As Jim notes, the key failure was the twist lock end of the power cord. It had burned the connections inside the cord end with very little external evidence. We looked inside every electrical box in Paul's rig and could find no other evidence of the electrical fire that had caused the original smoke. But, the wall receptacle where the power cord plugs in is physically open to the inside of the coach . . . this is likely how smoke from a burning cord got inside the coach.

As we changed out various different things, we realized that Paul's original cord twist lock connection was a very loose fit to the coach. Other cords would be a snug fit. Interesting that there was no visible damage to the wall receptacle . . . all the damage was further back in the original cord plug. This looks to be the source of the intermittent loss of neutral that caused the voltage fluctuations that damaged various devices within the coach.

So . . . lessons learned . . .

I am now a firm believer that the surge/voltage protector should be inside the coach. (Even though mine and Paul's are hanging on the post). An internal unit would have seen a loss of neutral fault in the power cord, but the unit on the post cannot see downstream faults.

The inverter/shore power selector switches that Curtis and I thought might be the problem turned out to not be the problem because they are electrically correct DPDT switches. Curtis found these online for reference https://www.amazon.com/Pass-Seymour-.../dp/B00R8MMALK (I didn't even know that DPDT wall switches existed!)

And of course . . . Grand Design stepped up (as usual ) to replace anything damaged through this whole ordeal.

BIG lesson learned for everybody . . . if the twist lock connection to your coach is the least bit "wobbly" (and you don't have an internal voltage fault protector) there is significant risk of loss of neutral connection and over-voltage electrical damage.

Rob