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  1. #11
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    John - have you resolved this dimmer buzz problem ?

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  2. #12
    Site Sponsor John612's Avatar
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    Not yet Rob, Marty suggested I call M4 where I bought the lights and see if they had an answer.
    Hope to do that tomorrow.

    Thanks,

    John
    John, Susan & Luke
    2015 Reflection 303 RLS #867
    Bakersfield, CA

  3. #13
    Site Sponsor John612's Avatar
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    Talked to M4 today, here are the dimmable LEDs they carry.
    They work with the company who makes the dimmer.

    921-10-5630-CW (in your color choice)
    1156-10-5630-WW (in your color choice)
    John, Susan & Luke
    2015 Reflection 303 RLS #867
    Bakersfield, CA

  4. #14
    Seasoned Camper Thorvald's Avatar
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    I've been looking at these as well but the price and shipped to Canada is a tad of a killer ($29 USD each and $26 USD shipping...). You can get them direct from the manufacturer at:

    https://www.pca.com/pcarv/


    Which is a division of PCA Electronics, Inc..

    https://www.pca.com

    ---

    Datasheets, install instructions etc are all there. If you're having issues best to deal direct.

    Cheers
    Tim
    2022 Momentum 25G (aka "Baby Mo")
    2020 Ram 3500 Laramie SRW | 6.7 HO Aisin | 6’4” bed | 3.73 gears | air suspension | 3694# Payload
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  5. #15
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorvald View Post
    I've been looking at these as well but the price and shipped to Canada is a tad of a killer ($29 USD each and $26 USD shipping...). Tim
    Tim - There is a Canadian supplier for things like this in Kingston. https://store.qkits.com/dc-motor-speed-control.html
    Not quite as "neatly packaged" as the dimmer under discussion . . . but, I have not had the buzzing problem currently being discussed. These are actually pulse width modulation (PWM) speed controllers that work well to dim LEDs. The FK804 is less than $10 and will provide a dimming range from about 20% to full bright. The MX033 is about $30 and will provide 0 to 100% range. You can buy these as kits for less money and assemble then with remote potentiometers if space is a restriction. They do require finding both the + and the - wires going to the LEDs that you want to dim.

    QKits also has many other clever electronic devices. One is a DC voltage stepper. These can be used to run devices that have lower voltage replaceable batteries from the 12 VDC trailer batteries. (Handy if you want things like water alarms to turn off with the main battery disconnect)

    They have a well stocked retail store in Kingston if you have reason to be in that area. The owner (James) is very knowledgeable.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  6. #16
    Seasoned Camper Thorvald's Avatar
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    Thanks Rob, I'm an EET (and extreme nerd) by trade so right up my alley. I'll likely give the MX033 a try and simply desolder the pot and remote mount it (I didn't see a kit for it but they had equivalent kit models).

    Cheers
    Tim
    2022 Momentum 25G (aka "Baby Mo")
    2020 Ram 3500 Laramie SRW | 6.7 HO Aisin | 6’4” bed | 3.73 gears | air suspension | 3694# Payload
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  7. #17
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorvald View Post
    Thanks Rob, I'm an EET . . . Tim
    Hi Tim - Do you know why John is experiencing the buzzing noise with the small dimmer being discussed? I was close to ordering a couple of these because they appear to work without finding the ground wire to the LEDs. GDRV sometimes grounds the lights somewhere else and brings only the positive to the switch location. I can't find a circuit diagram for the ELP 1012 . . . not that this would help me a whole lot, I'm an ME and only know enough about electronics to get myself in trouble .

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  8. #18
    Seasoned Camper Thorvald's Avatar
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    Without knowing what is inside the PCA "dimmer" I can't really say but I suspect it is simply a standard potentiometer (variable resistor) in a fancy case with some sort of protection to ensure it doesn't short out the load.

    Time to put the teachers hat on to explain some things lol:

    ---

    With regards to the buzzing, an LED does not have any sort of physical element inside (filament etc) to "move" to cause an audible sound, it's just a silicon PN junction (diode). The buzzing is usually caused by some part of a circuit along the way that actually controls the LEDs or that is tied into the same source voltage as the lights that doesn't like it's source voltage to be lowered (or current reduced).

    Simply installing a POT on the main power to the LEDs isn't so simple unless the LEDs are wired straight to the power source without any extra circuitry (regulators, etc) so that might explain why the awning works and the interior doesn't. You may be dropping the source voltage below the requirement of the internal circuit of the device itself (regulator, PWM chip, etc) causing it to do all kinds of "weird crap"... such as constantly switching on/off at a random rate. Something in there doesn't like the low voltage that's for sure. I've seen some pretty complex circuits on a simple "RV bulb" yet also just a couple of LED's soldered together with a resistor and a diode... really random stuff.

    ---

    LEDs are current driven devices, we normally use a current limiting resistor (matched to the source voltage) to produce the required brightness. The pot would typically take the place of the current limiting resistor to allow for "adjustable brightness" but not quite so simple (a pot can produce a dead short causing the LED to get really nice and bright for a few milliseconds... lol).

    A PWM circuit (Pulse Width Modulation) is not reducing the source voltage (and therefore the current), it is simply adjusting the duty cycle (think "how long the device is on")... the source voltage is still the same and so is the current. Human eyes can't pickup the fact that the LED is actually turning on and off at a high rate but if you adjust the PWM frequency down to a lower value (for example 1 second duty cycle) and you will see the LED "blinking".

    Really it's just "trickery"... because the LED is only on for a split second it can't emit as much light and the human eye interprets this as "dimmer". Point a good camera at a PWM controlled LED and play with the camera settings and you'll see the "blinking".

    ---

    So by using PWM we are not "pissing off" anything else connected to that source voltage except by the fact we are turning it off and on at a high rate (which still may drive it nuts but in other ways lol).

    To troubleshoot I'd start with the basics, pull all the LED "bulbs" except for one (that is on that circuit) and see if it still buzzes with only one connected. Forgot to ask, when wired correctly do the interior lights dim AND buzz or just buzz?

    Cheers
    Tim
    2022 Momentum 25G (aka "Baby Mo")
    2020 Ram 3500 Laramie SRW | 6.7 HO Aisin | 6’4” bed | 3.73 gears | air suspension | 3694# Payload
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  9. #19
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Thanks Tim !
    Great "teacher mode" where you can dumb down this stuff enough for us non-EETs to understand what is going on!

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  10. #20
    Rolling Along
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    Thinking out loud...

    What if the PWM controller is oscillating at an audible frequency? The current turning on and off could be causing "something" to vibrate at that frequency. The layout of the components might be mechanically resonant at or near that frequency, creating the buzz.

    You might try applying a slight pressure to the various components in the controller (if you can get at them) and see if that has anything effect.

    Dave




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