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Thread: Can I tow a Grand Design?
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01-08-2018, 08:48 PM #11
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As you did with GCWR, you run the numbers and see what you get.
Let's assume you load the trailer so that its total weight is 6000. For TTs, the rule of thumb is 10-15% should be on the tongue, or 600-900 lbs. Add passengers, tools, weight of the hitch to that, and it shouldn't exceed the payload number.
Similarly, for the RAWR, add the rear axle weight (loaded but unhitched) to the tongue weight, and compare to RAWR. (The WD hitch complicates this a bit.)
Now, you won't *really* know some of these numbers till you take it to a scale, but you can make some pretty good guesses. And as noted above, there's some safety margin already built into the ratings.
Dave
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk2015 Reflection 337RLS, #931, Built 6/14, Purchased New 1/15
2015 Silverado 3500HD LTZ SRW CC, 8' Bed, 4WD, Z71, Duramax/Allison
11,600 GVW, 3,739 Payload, 16.1 mpg for first 21,000 miles
Reese Elite 18K Hitch with underbed rails
Amateur Radio KQ3T (ex-WN8PXF, WA8PXF, N3CKQ)
Felines: Butter (Abyssinian), Cinnamon (Burmese, R.I.P.), and Harry (Orange Tiger Cat, Rescued from Sutton Lake CG, WV)
2018: Visitor Center Volunteer at Prince William Forest Park, Triangle VA, June thru October
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01-08-2018, 09:13 PM #12
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Light truck tires come in different "strengths", called the Load Range or Load Index. The load range of an LT tire is indicated by a letter following the size, and is molded into the sidewall. Load ranges are specified by a letter, such as 245-60/17 D or 265-70/18 E.
The load range is an indication, for any given tire size, of the maximum load and maximum pressure rating for the tire. Letters further along in the alphabet have greater ratings. For example, LR D has a maximum pressure of 65 psi, while E is 80 psi.
Helper springs are additional spring leafs added to the rear axle springs on both sides. This results in a stiffer rear spring, and reduces the amount of sag caused by heavy loads (such as that Imagine 2150!). Helper springs, however, do not change any of the weight ratings.
Dave
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk2015 Reflection 337RLS, #931, Built 6/14, Purchased New 1/15
2015 Silverado 3500HD LTZ SRW CC, 8' Bed, 4WD, Z71, Duramax/Allison
11,600 GVW, 3,739 Payload, 16.1 mpg for first 21,000 miles
Reese Elite 18K Hitch with underbed rails
Amateur Radio KQ3T (ex-WN8PXF, WA8PXF, N3CKQ)
Felines: Butter (Abyssinian), Cinnamon (Burmese, R.I.P.), and Harry (Orange Tiger Cat, Rescued from Sutton Lake CG, WV)
2018: Visitor Center Volunteer at Prince William Forest Park, Triangle VA, June thru October
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01-08-2018, 09:24 PM #13
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Thanks, Dave. You are very helpful.
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01-08-2018, 09:36 PM #14
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2015 Reflection 337RLS, #931, Built 6/14, Purchased New 1/15
2015 Silverado 3500HD LTZ SRW CC, 8' Bed, 4WD, Z71, Duramax/Allison
11,600 GVW, 3,739 Payload, 16.1 mpg for first 21,000 miles
Reese Elite 18K Hitch with underbed rails
Amateur Radio KQ3T (ex-WN8PXF, WA8PXF, N3CKQ)
Felines: Butter (Abyssinian), Cinnamon (Burmese, R.I.P.), and Harry (Orange Tiger Cat, Rescued from Sutton Lake CG, WV)
2018: Visitor Center Volunteer at Prince William Forest Park, Triangle VA, June thru October
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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01-08-2018, 09:57 PM #15
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You are more likely limited by payload than by your 7,000 lbs. tow rating. The safest thing to do is to load your truck up with all of your family (and pets if you have 'em), a full fuel tank, and any other stuff you would carry in the cab or the truck bed and head to the nearest CAT scale (the majority of truck stops have them). Pull on to the scales with your front wheels on the front pad and your rear wheels on the middle pad. You will get separate weights for front (steer) and rear (drive) axles. Add another 75 lbs. or so to the scale weights of the rear axle for a good weight distributing hitch. Subtract the number you end up with for the rear axle weight from the GVWRR (gross vehicle weight rating rear) from the door sticker. That's what you have left over for payload (tongue weight) on the rear axle. Per GDs specs, the 2150RB could come in anywhere between 750 and 1,000 lbs. on the tongue depending on how you load it. If you don't have that left over Under no circumstances should you exceed the load capacities on the tires at their maximum inflation pressures. If the Colorado comes with P rated passenger tires you could look into LT tires in load range E. This will increase the tire capacity and make things less squirrelly towing.
With all this said, we used to pull a travel trailer with a similar GVWR to the 2150RB with a 1/2-ton V-8 that weighed considerably more than your Colorado. I would not have wanted to pull that trailer with anything lighter.
RobU.S. Army Retired
2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
(Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
Full time since 08/2015
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01-09-2018, 07:08 AM #16
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To estimate whether your truck can work or not:
1. Check your receiver specifications. Most can handle 1000-1100 lbs tongue weight when using a weight distributing hitch. Maybe not for you, but for many this may be the most restrictive limit.
2. From the prospective trailer specs, find the max gross weight of the trailer allowed. Assume that 13% of this will be on the tongue. Add in 100 lbs for the hitch. This will give you a fat, very-likely-will-never-exceed number. See if it exceeds the limit for #1.
3. From the payload sticker on the door, subtract the amount in #2, weight of everything added since it rolled off the line (running boards, bed liner, etc.), weight of all passengers (including extra driver weight over 150 lbs) and any other stuff you plan to put in/on the truck - dogs, bikes, tools, etc. If the result is still positive, you pass this hurdle.
4. Then look at comparing pulling capacity of truck to gross weight of the trailer as well as combined gross weights. It is hard to load a trailer, usually, all the way to the gross - so if you are close, or a little bit over when comparing the gross numbers, you can assume that reality will be better. But, the closer you are to those limits, the poorer the performance of the truck when towing. And if you are right at the limits, pulling, ride, etc. can be very poor. Not unsafe, but not enjoyable.
"E" rated tires essentially are stiffer, so can help with less wiggle in the truck when towing. Helper springs/air bags/etc. in the back help stop the rear from dropping too much under load, and again may improve how everything tows. BUT, neither do anything to make up for being overweight for any of the above. The only solution for that is either a bigger truck, or lighter trailer.
As an aside - not being an automotive engineer, I can't speak definitively, but I find it hard to understand the argument about not having a truck big enough to stop it (mentioned above). The truck is designed to stop whatever its Gross Weight is rated at. The trailer has brakes to stop it at its own Gross Weight. Hence just because you are close on the numbers, it doesn't mean you are unsafe for braking. Yes, having more capacity further above any of the limits is always better. But it is your call as to how much excess capacity you need balancing performance and cost.2017 Imagine 2670MK
2012 F-150 SCrew, Eco, 4x4 6.5 box
Max. Tow, HD Payload, Airbags, ProPride hitch
(Previous: Jayco 26.5RLS Fifth, Revolution Pinbox)
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01-09-2018, 09:19 AM #17
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01-09-2018, 11:15 AM #18
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I'm with everyone on the side of just run the numbers and have fun but take it slow. When I went with an expedition I knew I was going to be 85-100 % of my limits. Limits are there for a reason, they are approved safe weight limits.
Does it tow like it would with an f350? Of course not. Does it tow safely in the 55-65mph window? Definitely.
Being near our limits we did all the research to make sure all of the safety "stars aligned" like a properly adusted WDH, TPMS, Tongue scale, etc. I also stoped at the first weight scale I could find to get real numbers and not hypothetical or guestimates. It all costs $$ but is much less than an accident.
Asking "is this enough to handle" on rv forums is almost like talking Republican or Democrat with some people haha. Don't push beyond limits or fudge numbers to make it work and take your time to stay safe.
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01-09-2018, 11:20 AM #19
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Oh and as someone else mentioned about tongue weight and payload, in the end those were my limitations too. Ford apparently thinks a 125# single people with no belongings tow things and gave the expedition a 15,000 gvwr.
Lastly, some brands may differ but in the Ford manual it says the driver DOES count against payload. Payload is the sticker max payload minus ALL occupants in the vehicle.
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01-09-2018, 11:47 AM #20
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This sounds good, but how many trailer/TV rigs can stop in the same distance required for just the TV? There's trailer brakes and then there's real brakes. Those four drum brakes on a large RV are not even close in stopping power to the four disk brakes on a TV that weighs half as much as the RV. And don't forget that the trailer and TV both have about the same area in contact with the road.
John and Jean
Springer Spaniel furkids Mea and (the late) Molly
Blogs - BataanMissing.com - AirSafety.info
2017 Ford F-350 6.7L CC SB, Andersen Ultimate Hitch.
2018 Reflection 337RLS fifth wheel.
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