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  1. #51
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    Aside from our plumbing we've had no real issues that can be attributable to Grand Design. I'm going to knock on wood now because you know how that all goes.

    We had the plumbing issue, which certainly pissed me off as a new owner. I had the choice to bring it to the dealer but I have zero faith in 95% of dealers out there. We had a good one with our Newmar but they are in Wintergarden FL and don't sell Grand Design but if I was in a pinch I'd use them before any others.

    We've had a number of RVs over the last 12 years.

    Forest River - Formaldehyde smell. Kept a year.

    Newmar Dutch Star - water leak behind the shower, leak on the hydronic heating, loose neutral on a transfer switch blew our washer dryer (thank fully the EMS stopped it from destroying the entire coach), oil leak on the cummins that we could never fully track down despite two weeks sitting at cummins.

    DRV - black tank was never plumbed right and an elbow let go on the way to the tank, roof vent pipe inserted deeply into the black tank, water leak under the bathroom sink and behind the washer dryer connection in the master bedroom (that one sucked), plywood on the roof broke free and was rattling when in motion caused a lot of damage to the roof seams

    Momentum - Plumbing redone to Pex, mostly because my local dealer has their heads up their rear ends and I would only used them if I was desperate. I also didn't want to have to keep going back as they fixed one hose, then another and another. So I did it myself the right way. We had on air conditioner go out, low amps on the compressor when running so it was out of gas. Manufacturing defect, not on GD.


    You can see that it doesn't matter how much money you spend. Brands that have a well known name for quality and high prices have the same issues and you can buy a cheap TT with formaldehyde in everything (this was back before the switch) but everything works.

    Much of it is the luck of the draw. You can have relatively trouble free and if you were the last one on the line before quitting time you might get stuff thrown together a little faster. It shouldn't be like that, quality assurance should catch it, they don't. Bottom line is they are building them almost as fast as people are buying them, for now. The next down turn is approaching and that will change, many lines will get the axe just like before and the cycle and reset itself.

    I didn't buy GD because it would be trouble free. I bought it because the price and floor plan were right and as a bonus they had a good rep here for taking care fo their customers. I can attest to that thus far in my ownership as well. That said, I'd buy another one if the same factors hold true but I'm not married to any brand and ultimately as a full timer the floor plan is the most important factor and I'd gladly buy another unit somewhere else because in the end, they are all mostly the same when looking at the same price point.

    Its a house on wheels that goes down the road, you're going to have issues with it at some point. Sure they can be built better, the Q/A control could be a lot better but in the end, you're going to have issues.
    Last edited by Aridon; 05-23-2019 at 11:59 AM.
    2019 Momentum 395
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by papermakermd View Post
    Thanks again to Aridon,minnow101, and Cate& Rob for your follow up responses. I don't mind fixing an occasional little problem but I don't expect to deal with the problems like Polkadotti has with the money i'm spending. GD will have a serious problem on their hands if I have to deal with all his problems. I have owned 2 Coleman Popups,a Trail Manor, and my current Coachman Apex and never had to deal with any major problem with plumbing,electrical,axles or tires or appliances. That is the way it should be. I'm purchasing a Grand Design because of their reputation for making things right.That does not help though when you are trying to enjoy a trip and have to fix shoddy workmanship like Polkadotti .Grand Design will have a serious problem if I have that many problems. Grand Design is suppose to have the best workforce in the industry according to their brochure. This doesn't appear to be the case. I have not taken delivery of my unit. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
    I'm thinking Grand Design has the only workforce in the industry available to them. I won't go in to the issues I've had, they are many but I believe my coach to be the exception. I would say what GDRV has going for it is interior finish and good floorplans. Quality of build is not exceptional, I'd say on par with the rest of the field. They use the same Lippert components as many others. Their chassis is Lippert and is nothing to get excited about.

    Where GDRV excels is customer service. So far they have taken care of every problem I've had and are still doing so. Warranty work is a PITA but is far better than the no warranty support you'd probably get elsewhere.

  3. #53
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    After studying all of these discussions on this GD site, and some other research on some other RV sites, the flexi lines mixed with PEX is common and problematic. Others complain about it elsewhere too.

    Having had the 5th wheel for only 4 weeks and living in it continuously, we have our first leak. Both the hot and cold flexi lines from the shower are dripping a couple drips a minute. I could not get the local dealer to help this week, so I decided to tackle it myself. I bought a really good pair of side cutters and some old-fashioned hose clamps. The heat had been running as it is pretty chilly in central Oregon this week.

    The basement was HOT, wow, it sure won't freeze down there. But, as I started to mess with the lines, they were very warm, almost so hot I could not touch them. They are within an inch or touching the heating duct in the basement! The lines are very soft, the hoses nearly could be pulled off, no wonder they leaked. I clipped off the old crimps and put on the new standard hose clamps. No leaks.

    This gets me thinking... they probably put these together in 70F not ~120F like they are next to the heating ducts. The crimps are not getting a good crimp on the hose in the cold and when super-warm/hot, they are much more "squishy", and not nearly as tight. The PEX does not see this type of temperature change as dramatic as the flexi lines. I wonder if this is what is happening with others, the temperature swing, and particularly running the heat changes the physical characteristics of the lines and we spring leaks.

    So, I am heading down to the store to get a sheet of foam board to put between the plumbing and the ductworks. These lines should not be subjected to these crazy heat changes, it is clearly part of the problem.
    2015 Ford F350 6.7L TurboDiesel, Crew Cab, short bed SRW, 4x4, Lariat
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  4. #54
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    The majority of my leaks have been connections at the water service panel. The overriding issue is that the flex tubing has a slightly different diameter then PEX. The PEX crimp rings and fittings used on this flex hose were not designed for this stuff. Hence, over time, leaks will develop at the connections.
    A good worm drive stainless steel clamp(not the cheap crap found in Harbor Freight or WalMart) will do the job if one is not up to removing flex tubing and replacing with PEX. PEX A is the most bendable and will allow fewer elbows, etc. One uses round, smooth compression rings to attach to fittings. A special tool is needed to expand the PEX A to insert the fitting. PEX B is probably the most common. It is less flexible/bendable and will require more elbows to get from Point A to Point B. PEX B uses the crimp rings as whats in your RV now.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    The majority of my leaks have been connections at the water service panel. The overriding issue is that the flex tubing has a slightly different diameter then PEX. The PEX crimp rings and fittings used on this flex hose were not designed for this stuff. Hence, over time, leaks will develop at the connections. A good worm drive stainless steel clamp(not the cheap crap found in Harbor Freight or WalMart) will do the job if one is not up to removing flex tubing and replacing with PEX. PEX A is the most bendable and will allow fewer elbows, etc. One uses round, smooth compression rings to attach to fittings. A special tool is needed to expand the PEX A to insert the fitting. PEX B is probably the most common. It is less flexible/bendable and will require more elbows to get from Point A to Point B. PEX B uses the crimp rings as whats in your RV now.
    Having recently begun work on replacing soft tubing I'll throw a couple of cents into this thread.

    Our trailer has been lived in for barely over six months on and off, nearly all of it in moderate temps (not much heating of the plumbing by the nearby furnace). I saw that we had the telltale bulging of the soft hose in two places, both on hot lines and the worst at the outlet from the rear of the hot water heater. I dunno how much longer these bulging connection points would have lasted and didn't want to find out.

    Up here in Canada we appear to not have a choice between PEX A and PEX B... fairly-stiff PEX (B?) similar to that used by Grand Design is the one choice sold by Home Depot / Lowes / etc. here.

    For anyone planning this work, in 65-70 degree ambient temps it was pretty much impossible to dismantle previously-made connections. Plan for cutting things apart and replacing pretty much everything in the lines you're changing. Fittings can be salvaged by carefully carving the PEX with a knife but replacing the cheap plastic GD OEM fittings with brass is satisfying and not terribly expensive. Sharkbite connectors are much more expensive but SO much less work... not the first time I've envied the rich.

    Is that worth two cents? Maybe not!
    Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - 2017 F-350 diesel SRW short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch

  6. #56
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    Yes, that's good advice boyscout. Some HD and Lowes carry the PEX A(not all however). When I re-plumbed ours, I used the PEX B. I would recommend going with "A" as it's less cutting, crimping and fittings. Less fittings means less opportunity for leaks.
    2022 Imagine XLS 22MLE
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