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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    JCZ - When I re-plumbed my Reflection, I replaced soft hose with Pex routed around future service paths. This involved adding a lot of elbows. I was expecting flow reduction . . . but, this never materialized. My plan was to remove fixture flow restrictors if necessary, but this was not required.

    I have discovered that most of the flow restriction comes from outside the RV in the supply line from the campground. A pressure gauge within the RV system will show this. While the static campground pressure may reach 50 psi, this system pressure drops dramatically (to maybe 20 psi) if a single faucet is opened. This means that the supply line cannot maintain pressure at even a relatively low volume.

    Rob
    I can agree with this based on experience. I started out with the standard 1/2" water line and moved up to the typical 5/8" and noticed a good increase in flow and pressure. I am now running a full 3/4 line which is night and day better than the 1/2". The length of the line also matters - us the shortest hose possible.

    A few year back a neighbor camper was having pressure issues. Camp manager cam out and there was 50psi at the hydrant, but he had less than 10 in the trailer. Turns out he had installed a new Quick connect on the trailer (push sleeve bayonet type) Once that single fitting was removed he was fine. We looked at the fitting and all it had was a 1/4" hole in the center.

    Also all fittings are not created equal. 2 different 90's can have different K factors. The higher the K factor the more it reduces flow and pressure. The K factor is used to determine pressure flow and drop and is directly proportional to added liner feet of straight line. So a fitting might be equal to 10 additional feet of straight tubing. Think of it as a garden hose - a 50 foot one will flow more than a 100 foot one.

    Hope this helps.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  2. #12
    Setting Up Camp
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    You can say that all you want, but my rig has failed 6 of these hoses since owning it in Dec 2018. Today was the worst because the heat from the hot water has expanded the soft hose and it no longer really fits the connector which happens to run to another soft line and a pex line.

    So tomorrow I will be calling GD (which should stand for *******) because this RV is a lemon. All my slide windows had to be replaced, replaced circuit breaker, shower slide is already broken, recliners had to be replaced, heater makes a hellish noise intermittently (wakes me up), mislabeled pulls for grey and black tanks, squeaky faucet in bathroom already, and now I am plagued with water leaks, 6 lines total. Water damage to the cabinet wood under the drawers, standing water on top of the black tank, which means it is in the underbelly seeping around and doing who knows what kind of damage.

    I have never been subjected to such a piece of crap. Do you really expect you owners to plumb the rig? Do you expect us to sit and simply wait for another disastrous water leak—because that’s what owning your product has become for me. I have to turn off my water every time I leave, and I know when I fix these soft line leaks, there will be others. Maybe the next one will flood it completely and I can simply call my insurance for repair—or better yet—a total loss.

    I am on a nursing assignment and spent 3 plus hours this evening after work trying to fix 4 soft hose leaks—to no avail because the pex fittings I kept on hand won’t fit the swollen bullshit soft hoses that we all know don’t belong in the spiders and snakes system, the tangled web of crazy that will FLOOD the storage compartment, and the kitchen in my case.

    Needless to say I do not have water and can only hope the local hardware store sells something I can use in the interim.

    You should be ashamed of yourself Grand Design. You have a loyal customer base, bordering on the devout. I bought this piece of junk based on these fabulous reviews, which I now question—because no product is worth this hell. If you read the forum carefully you will find a host of terrible problems happening to your loyal customer base. I am not that loyal to you—because I have no reason to be.

    California has a lemon law and the water system in this rig will most certainly qualify. I know my water problems are only getting started. You will be hearing from me to tomorrow. To not fix this problem is a statement to your customers that you simply do not care and feel more loyal to a public relations ******** story than you do your those who lay out their hard earned cash. We use these rigs, for pleasure and for work, in my case.

    We depend on these rigs to keep us warm and dry and for fun and relaxation. So far GD has provided no protection to me from these elements, and there is no fun or relaxation when you are waiting for the next water leak you know is coming.

    I want my ******* money back so I can go purchase one of the 3 other dependable RV makes I have had in my decade of RVing, travel nursing.

    I haven’t even had this rig 6 months, and I will never trust it—because it isn’t trust worthy. I have never been treated so poorly by a company via their product design.

    My new rig has water damage and in the RV world that is the kiss of death. To anyone out there thinking of purchasing this product, read between the lines of this forum and don’t OVERLOOK or dismiss the terrible reviews as some disgruntled ******* like I did. This ******** is real. My only mistake was believing GD did it right. They did not.
    Last edited by TucsonJim; 05-21-2019 at 09:04 AM.

  3. #13
    Setting Up Camp
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    I simply can’t believe the owners are actually discussing having to plumb their new RV. I am not a plumber but the problem with the soft hoses is so blatantly obvious, even a nurse who knows jack about plumbing realized it immediately. GD needs to own this problem, because it’s a big problem that has the potential to ruin the RV—literally.

  4. #14
    Rolling Along jim1521's Avatar
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    @Polkadotti that sounds like a nightmare! If you have a way of invoking a Lemon Law I would certainly do so.

    While you will undoubtedly get sympathy from members of this forum (nobody wishes what you’re going through on anybody) it is my experience that your message will fall on deaf ears from a GDRV standpoint, as I don’t believe they even monitor this forum anymore. You would do much better to contact them directly and see if they will work with you to fix all of these problems.

    If not, you will most definitely get their attention by posting your message on Facebook. It seems that Facebook is a media that they cannot ignore, due to it’s social reach.

    I wish you the best of luck.
    2016 Grand Design Reflection 313RLTS
    2020 Riverstone 39FK
    2016 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.7L Powerstroke Lariat 2WD DRW

  5. #15
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    @Polkadotti - Your frustration is understood. But, this is a forum of owners trying to help each other with things like this . . . we no longer have any direct connection with Grand Design. You are welcome to vent your frustration here . . . but this will not get you any closer to an answer from GDRV.

    A couple of thoughts:
    1) Others have stated on this forum that Lemon Laws do not apply to towable RVs, even in California. But, I may be wrong on this.
    2) When you shop for a replacement, look "behind the walls" before you buy. Use of the soft hose on Pex fittings is reported to be an accepted industry-wide practice.

    Please keep us updated on your progress/resolution.

    Rob
    Cate & Rob
    2015 Reflection 303RLS

  6. #16
    Setting Up Camp
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    The use of the soft hoses may be an industry standard, but the last 3 rigs I have owned never leaked, not once. In fact, I can say without reservation I have had more leaks in this rig than in anything I have every owned collectively in my lifetime--and I am not 20. Maybe I have simply been lucky, but this does not feel like luck, it just wreaks of shoddy design followed by shoddy installation. The CA lemon law does include RVs, other state laws may not. I have contacted GD and have put my complaint out there, and will do so on their Facebook forum as well. This should be a recall as far as I am concerned, because it is such a weak spot with huge implications if it fails.

    I expect to be reimbursed for the tools and supplies to fix the problem and the future problems I know will exist. That's a bargain for them. I have requested they take back the rig. We will see where that goes (nowhere, I am sure.) Some of us simply do not have 100 hours of time to rebuild the plumbing and it's ridiculous that I now have to at least consider several hours/days of replacing these soft hoses--when clearly it does not work and is completely illogical. It's not as though they are easy to get to, which is another issue.

    While I realize this forum is now not affiliated with GD, it seems that the forum could be used to apply pressure to the company for these horrific designs as there is strength in numbers. I get it, we have to solve problems on the road and be self sufficient, but we all know this problem goes far beyond that line. I won't post anymore of my frustrations in this forum, because I have learned from experience the moderators here really don't want to hear it, and feel we should roll up our sleeves and rebuild everything. That is a theme I read over and over.

  7. #17
    Long Hauler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkadotti View Post
    The use of the soft hoses may be an industry standard, but the last 3 rigs I have owned never leaked, not once. In fact, I can say without reservation I have had more leaks in this rig than in anything I have every owned collectively in my lifetime--and I am not 20. Maybe I have simply been lucky, but this does not feel like luck, it just wreaks of shoddy design followed by shoddy installation. The CA lemon law does include RVs, other state laws may not. I have contacted GD and have put my complaint out there, and will do so on their Facebook forum as well. This should be a recall as far as I am concerned, because it is such a weak spot with huge implications if it fails.

    I expect to be reimbursed for the tools and supplies to fix the problem and the future problems I know will exist. That's a bargain for them. I have requested they take back the rig. We will see where that goes (nowhere, I am sure.) Some of us simply do not have 100 hours of time to rebuild the plumbing and it's ridiculous that I now have to at least consider several hours/days of replacing these soft hoses--when clearly it does not work and is completely illogical. It's not as though they are easy to get to, which is another issue.

    While I realize this forum is now not affiliated with GD, it seems that the forum could be used to apply pressure to the company for these horrific designs as there is strength in numbers. I get it, we have to solve problems on the road and be self sufficient, but we all know this problem goes far beyond that line. I won't post anymore of my frustrations in this forum, because I have learned from experience the moderators here really don't want to hear it, and feel we should roll up our sleeves and rebuild everything. That is a theme I read over and over.
    I here your frustration and feel that you do have some significant problems that , given an even temper , Grand Design should address all these issues.
    I will speak for my self as a moderator , I do not feel you are wrong in your posting , the wording could be a little better , but the "rant" is well received. Many have had issues from what you are experiencing to worse and have found ways to deal with GD and get them resolved. I am sure you will get yours resolved as well, if not I would understand.
    I have had to fix a few things on our rv , did these by myself, the ride to the dealer is about 80 miles , not worth my time or fuel.
    Your issues with the flex hose has been talked about on here for a while , why does GD not change there ways? , I am not sure why. All manufactures will likely employ the same "technology" to build a unit as cheap as they can. Its not fun , but over the years I have learned to deal with it.

    Brian, moderator

  8. #18
    Seasoned Camper mageorge's Avatar
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    Pex Hose vs Soft Hose Update

    I certainly understand your frustration Pokadotti, I came back to my RV last year in Glacier with a belly full of water from a soft hose the blew a hole while ai was gone. But a lot of us are pretty handy or attempt to be on this forum, it’s a good resource. A few parts and three hours later, I had all of the soft line replaced with pex. Hope you figure your situation out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike & Debbie
    Hot Springs, Ar
    2014 Ram 2500 4x4 Short Bed Diesel
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    2014 Reflection 303 (#405)

  9. #19
    Rolling Along jim1521's Avatar
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    @Polkadotti, this was the reason why when we went shopping for a new fifth wheel, GDRV wasn't even considered. For us there just wasn't enough good reason to pay a premium for their product over Riverstone.
    2016 Grand Design Reflection 313RLTS
    2020 Riverstone 39FK
    2016 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.7L Powerstroke Lariat 2WD DRW

  10. #20
    King Pin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkadotti View Post
    The use of the soft hoses may be an industry standard, but the last 3 rigs I have owned never leaked, not once. In fact, I can say without reservation I have had more leaks in this rig than in anything I have every owned collectively in my lifetime--and I am not 20. Maybe I have simply been lucky, but this does not feel like luck, it just wreaks of shoddy design followed by shoddy installation. The CA lemon law does include RVs, other state laws may not. I have contacted GD and have put my complaint out there, and will do so on their Facebook forum as well. This should be a recall as far as I am concerned, because it is such a weak spot with huge implications if it fails.

    I expect to be reimbursed for the tools and supplies to fix the problem and the future problems I know will exist. That's a bargain for them. I have requested they take back the rig. We will see where that goes (nowhere, I am sure.) Some of us simply do not have 100 hours of time to rebuild the plumbing and it's ridiculous that I now have to at least consider several hours/days of replacing these soft hoses--when clearly it does not work and is completely illogical. It's not as though they are easy to get to, which is another issue.

    While I realize this forum is now not affiliated with GD, it seems that the forum could be used to apply pressure to the company for these horrific designs as there is strength in numbers. I get it, we have to solve problems on the road and be self sufficient, but we all know this problem goes far beyond that line. I won't post anymore of my frustrations in this forum, because I have learned from experience the moderators here really don't want to hear it, and feel we should roll up our sleeves and rebuild everything. That is a theme I read over and over.
    Please understand that all of the moderators discussed your post and we are all sympathetic to your plight. We'd love to help you get resolution. But censoring foul language which is a violation of the forum rules is a long way from "moderators here really don't want to hear it".

    Like I stated in the private message I sent to you this morning, if you want us to try to escalate your concerns to GDRV management, please provide your contact information via PM.

    Jim

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