Finally decided to get the lithium battle born batteries

[TucsonJim]

I purchased two Battle Born batteries today to replace my three lead acid batteries which are getting weak. If any of you are interested in saving some money, talk to them about "B" stock batteries. These are batteries that have a blemish and they are discounting them by $100. The case may have a scratch or blemish, but the batteries are fully functional and have the exact same warranty as their full price batteries. Two BB batteries were $1698. Shipping was free and they did not charge sales tax.

BTW, my three Interstate batteries weigh in at 50.3 pounds each, or 151# combined. The two BB batteries weigh in at 29 pounds each - 58 pounds. So I should be reducing my tongue weight by nearly 93 pounds. The tongue on my 297RSTS needs to drop a few pounds anyway.

Jim
Jim

[howson]

...three lead acid batteries...

OK, I've probably gone over my limit for newbie questions today, but why three? My 315RLTS came with one. Is there something I don't know that is going to bite me in the posterior at the worst possible time?

[SouthTX]

How much battery power you need just depends on your style of camping. If you always have full hook up sites, you'll be fine with just one. If you like to occassionally dry camp, you may want more batteries plus a way to recharge them on the fly.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

You’re going to love them Jim!

Let’s see some pics!




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[TucsonJim]

OK, I've probably gone over my limit for newbie questions today, but why three? My 315RLTS came with one. Is there something I don't know that is going to bite me in the posterior at the worst possible time?

Howard - As previously mentioned, if you always have electrical hookups, one battery should work just fine. It will provide enough power for your emergency break away system's brakes, lights, the water pump and other 12V systems while you're on the road. As soon as you plug in, the converter which is connected to your battery will help make sure you have adequate DC power to meet your needs.

I do much of my camping without hookups. I enjoy getting away from the crowds and camping in more remote areas. But I still like some of the luxuries of home while doing so. I have modified my trailer with a solar charging system to keep the batteries charged up during daylight hours. I also have an inverter which converts battery power into 120V AC power so I can run items like our coffee pot, microwave, TV, and satellite system.

The three lead acid batteries had approximately 90 amp hours of power available in each one. With three of them, that is 270 amp hours of power. But, unfortunately, lead acid and AGM batteries can only be run down to 50% of their capacity before they risk being damaged. So in reality, I only had a maximum of 135 amp hours of battery power.

The Battle Born lithium batteries can use 95 to 100% of their available power without being damaged. Since each one has 100 amp hours of power available, I can obtain nearly 200 amp hours of power. So the benefit is getting more available power in a much lighter package. The drawback is cost. But in the long run, lithium batteries will last the average person 8-10 years. In that time frame, you'd run through many lead acid and AGM batteries. According to most people's calculations, the overall cost is cheaper with lithium vs. other types of batteries.

Jim

[Aridon]

Very cool. Expensive, but cool.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

...The three lead acid batteries had approximately 90 amp hours of power available in each one. With three of them, that is 270 amp hours of power. But, unfortunately, lead acid and AGM batteries can only be run down to 50% of their capacity before they risk being damaged. So in reality, I only had a maximum of 135 amp hours of battery power.

The Battle Born lithium batteries can use 95 to 100% of their available power without being damaged. Since each one has 100 amp hours of power available, I can obtain nearly 200 amp hours of power. So the benefit is getting more available power in a much lighter package. The drawback is cost. But in the long run, lithium batteries will last the average person 8-10 years. In that time frame, you'd run through many lead acid and AGM batteries. According to most people's calculations, the overall cost is cheaper with lithium vs. other types of batteries.

Jim

You're being modest Jim. I pulled the following info from various sources...
LiFeP04 batteries have been proven to have a life expectancy TEN times that of lead-acid batteries. If there were no other benefit, that fact alone would make them "worth it".
They also operate at a much lower resistance and unlike non-Lithiums, have operating ranges from -40 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit and are far more efficient in storing energy (96% efficiency). What about climate resistance? Both lead-acid batteries and LiFePO4 batteries lose capacity in cold environments, however the loss of energy with LiFePO4 batteries is minimal. It will still have 80% of capacity at a temperature of -20°C, compared to 30% of capacity when using an AGM battery, which by the way cannot be discharged at all, below freezing, if it is below 60% DoD. LiFeP04's can be discharged below freezing all the way to 0% DoD.
What about loss of voltage? When using a LiFePO4 battery the discharge curve is almost flat, meaning that a battery with 20 percent capacity can give the same output as a fully charged battery. This prevents a lot of the problems that lead-acid batteries experience when discharging. Another important benefit is the extreme peak current that can be provided by LiFePO4 batteries, even when they are almost fully discharged. Our Battle Borns have a BMS which stands for battery management system, which protects the lithium cells from getting damaged in several scenarios. From low or high voltage, low or high temperatures, or if there is a short in the system.
The BMS will shut off the battery to protect the li-ion cells and the user of the battery from unsafe operating conditions. The BMS also regulates the amount of power you can take out of the battery. The BMS on our 100 amp-hour battery is rated to 100 amps continuous, 200 amps for 30 seconds and any higher loads for ½ second. Our BMS also keeps all of the cells in balance. At the top of each charge cycle, the BMS reduces the charging rate in cells that have been topped off first, letting the rest of the cells catch up. This ensures that the cells are always in balance, and maintains the quality and efficiency of the pack. Li-ion batteries can actually be safer than Lead acid batteries, which have no protection against ground faults. The BMS protects against ground faults.

And if you want to really Geek out on specs and comparisons go HERE. This is just one of many articles I've found that made me a believer.

[alanhenson]

Howard - As previously mentioned, if you always have electrical hookups, one battery should work just fine. It will provide enough power for your emergency break away system's brakes, lights, the water pump and other 12V systems while you're on the road. As soon as you plug in, the converter which is connected to your battery will help make sure you have adequate DC power to meet your needs.

I do much of my camping without hookups. I enjoy getting away from the crowds and camping in more remote areas. But I still like some of the luxuries of home while doing so. I have modified my trailer with a solar charging system to keep the batteries charged up during daylight hours. I also have an inverter which converts battery power into 120V AC power so I can run items like our coffee pot, microwave, TV, and satellite system.

The three lead acid batteries had approximately 90 amp hours of power available in each one. With three of them, that is 270 amp hours of power. But, unfortunately, lead acid and AGM batteries can only be run down to 50% of their capacity before they risk being damaged. So in reality, I only had a maximum of 135 amp hours of battery power.

The Battle Born lithium batteries can use 95 to 100% of their available power without being damaged. Since each one has 100 amp hours of power available, I can obtain nearly 200 amp hours of power. So the benefit is getting more available power in a much lighter package. The drawback is cost. But in the long run, lithium batteries will last the average person 8-10 years. In that time frame, you'd run through many lead acid and AGM batteries. According to most people's calculations, the overall cost is cheaper with lithium vs. other types of batteries.

Jim

I simply cannot see how it could possibly be cheaper. They cost 10x as much. I find it very hard to believe you're going to use more than 10 regular batteries in that 10 year time span. If I can buy 1 led acid for $100 but the lithium is 1K it seems like a no brainer to me.

I have a feeling this is like the curly light bulbs they had us all switch over to. Those billings with their supposed 10 year life span were triple the price and went out just as fast. LED bulbs are the same deal. I have two in my kitchen dead already after 1 year. At 10 times the price it was a total waste.

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[TucsonJim]

I simply cannot see how it could possibly be cheaper. They cost 10x as much. I find it very hard to believe you're going to use more than 10 regular batteries in that 10 year time span. If I can buy 1 led acid for $100 but the lithium is 1K it seems like a no brainer to me.

I have a feeling this is like the curly light bulbs they had us all switch over to. Those billings with their supposed 10 year life span were triple the price and went out just as fast. LED bulbs are the same deal. I have two in my kitchen dead already after 1 year. At 10 times the price it was a total waste.

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Alan - I'm probably drinking the Kool-aid myself. But here is my attempt to justify it:

I need 200 usable amp hours from my batteries for the items I run in a 24 hour period. I can achieve that with two lithium batteries which can be discharged 95 to 100% without damage, or four lead/acid or AGM batteries which can be can only utilize 50% depth of discharge.

A Battle Born lithium battery with it's on-board battery management system can handle 3000-5000 (10-15 years) discharge cycles before it is depleted to about 85% of it's original power. A lead/acid battery can typically handle 200-300 (18-24 months) cycles in it's lifetime.

Let's take the worst case life for the lithium of ten years, and the best case life for a lead acid at two years.

Two Battle Born lithium batteries - $949 each. $1898 Total (Ten Years) BTW, I purchased batteries with scratched cases for $1698.
Twenty lead acid batteries - $100 each. $2000 Total (Ten Years)

The cost is slightly higher in this example for the lead acid batteries. However, in the desert heat where I live, it is uncommon to get two full years out of a lead acid battery. So I usually replace them at 18 months or so.

And this doesn't take into account the diminished storage ability of a lead/acid battery after a year or two. That 90 amp hour battery will only provide 45 amp hours when it's new. At the end of a year or two, the storage capacity is greatly diminished.

There are factors other than cost that come into play. To get 200 amp hours of usable power out of lead acid batteries, I'd need four of them which would weigh nearly 200 pounds. I can get the same power out of 48 pounds of lithium. And AGM batteries weigh even more.

And lithium batteries are 100% maintenance free. On a lead acid, you need to maintain the fluid levels frequently or risk damaging the batteries.

Jim

[TucsonJim]

Well, the new batteries are here! They came well packaged. There was lots of foam protecting them. I did have to sign for them and sign off that I was accepting hazardous materials.


They were in individual boxes.


Each battery was well packaged in foam on the top, bottom and sides.


Since I purchased "B" stock, I carefully examined each battery for damage. I found one scuffed area on one battery. You can see it circled in red above.


The batteries fit perfectly into a group 27 battery box. Note - These batteries do NOT have to be vented. You can install them in the passenger or battery compartments without having to run vent lines.

I measured the voltage on the two batteries. One was 13.24V, and the other was 13.27. I tried to install them, but the bolts they provided were just a little short for my application. So I'll head to the hardware store for some longer replacements. I have a boon-docking trip planned in a few weeks and I'll let you know how they work out.

Jim