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  1. #21
    Fireside Member
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    Now a follow-up question on the 80 amp breaker swap out for the 50 amp breaker. Do the wires from the battery to the breaker and from the breaker to the hydraulic pump need to be swapped out also. My RV (310 Solitude) has 6 gauge wires for this run. This size wire is only rated for 50 amps. It takes 2 gauge wires to handle 80 amps. Some might say that with this short wire run (about 3 feet) and the short run time of the hydraulic pump (about 10 seconds) it should not be a problem. Well, it was heating up the bimetallic strip in the 50 amp breaker so that it broke the circuit. Also if you are leaving camp you run your sliders in (10 seconds), raise your rear jacks (10 seconds), raise your center jacks (10 seconds), the raise your hitch to go on your vehicle (10 seconds), the pause while you move your truck into position, then lower your hitch if you use an Andersen hitch (10 seconds), then raise you front jacks (10 seconds). So you have run the hydraulic pump for 60 seconds in a 3 minute or less period. That might be enough to overheat the 6 gauge wires.

  2. #22
    Gone Traveling
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsslc View Post
    Now a follow-up question on the 80 amp breaker swap out for the 50 amp breaker. Do the wires from the battery to the breaker and from the breaker to the hydraulic pump need to be swapped out also. My RV (310 Solitude) has 6 gauge wires for this run. This size wire is only rated for 50 amps. It takes 2 gauge wires to handle 80 amps. Some might say that with this short wire run (about 3 feet) and the short run time of the hydraulic pump (about 10 seconds) it should not be a problem. Well, it was heating up the bimetallic strip in the 50 amp breaker so that it broke the circuit. Also if you are leaving camp you run your sliders in (10 seconds), raise your rear jacks (10 seconds), raise your center jacks (10 seconds), the raise your hitch to go on your vehicle (10 seconds), the pause while you move your truck into position, then lower your hitch if you use an Andersen hitch (10 seconds), then raise you front jacks (10 seconds). So you have run the hydraulic pump for 60 seconds in a 3 minute or less period. That might be enough to overheat the 6 gauge wires.
    Good points. Personally, I’d change the wire. Short run, easy to do. Why risk it?

  3. #23
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    I agree that is probably the best course of action. However, I just did some research on line and found a table for 80 amp current passing thru various sized wires which was interesting. It showed the temperature rise (without taking heat loss into account) for a 6 gauge wire 3 ft. long would be 50 degrees C and for a 2 gauge wire it would be about 10 degrees C. Adding 50 degrees to ambient of say 30 degrees C (a hot day) would get you up to 80 degrees C (which would not melt the insulation on the wire). But the wire would be almost too hot to hold for a time. I am going to run some tests the next time I take my rig out and see how hot the wire becomes and also measure the amps the hydraulic pump is drawing. There are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of people out there who have upgraded to an 80 amp breaker without considering the effects on the wire. One Solitude owner posted that Grand Design had now upgraded to 80 amp breakers in the 2019 models. I would like to know if they upgraded to a heavier wire (#4 or #2 ).

  4. #24
    Site Sponsor JCR GD's Avatar
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    Keeping in mind of course it is running less than 50 amps with an occasional start-up/low voltage draw over 50 amps. Interested to see what larsslc finds out.
    Jim (& Sharon)
    2015 GD Momentum 385TH - SOLD
    For Sale - 2015 Ford F-350 DRW 4x4 Lariat w/ AirLift bags, Titan 65 gal. OEM replacement fuel tank.
    The toy:
    2017 RZR XP 1000 EPS SE

  5. #25
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    I contacted Grand Design customer service this morning. The service rep acknowledged that they now are sending all Solitudes and Momentums out with 80 amp breakers. He said they have not upgraded the #6 wire going to the hydraulic pump. Apparently they ran some tests and found that the temperature rise was not sufficient to merit upgrading the wires. With the short length of the wire, the relatively short run time, and the heat losses in the wire which occur, the temperature rise was not enough to be a problem. I am still going to run my own tests.

  6. #26
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    Good afternoon! I wanted to provide a follow up for you on this concern.

    Grand Design works closely with all of our vendors, especially Lippert Components. Our leveling systems (both hydraulic and electric) and numerous components supplied by Lippert are subject to a weekly audit. Grand Design used the 50 amp re-settable thermal breaker as instructed by Lippert Components on our standard factory install for our hydraulic Level Up Systems. Even though the gauge of our wiring is capable of handling the higher rated 80 amp breaker, we were directed to continue using the 50 amp breaker in production by Lippert Components. This was eventually reversed by Lippert and we now use the 80 amp thermal breaker. It should be noted there are units built with the 50 amp breaker that have no issue. The performance of the breaker, 50 amp or 80 amp, is directly related to the charge/voltage output of the customer batteries.

    Again this is primarily related to the hydraulic system, not the Ground Control Electric system that is used on Reflection Fifth Wheels.

    While the question of the wire gauge has been brought up, we should clarify that the Wiring is correct for 80 amp breaker. It Says 60amp awg but the voltage handling is high enough to use an 80 amp breaker per Lippert audit.

    Hope this helps clear up any confusion for you all!

    Again, if you ever have questions, or need assistance, please feel free to reach out to our team via email [email protected] or through phone 574-825-9679

    Have a wonderful afternoon!

    Emily

  7. #27
    Seasoned Camper Airrace's Avatar
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    Hmmmmmm Larssic it will be interesting to see what your tests show. With what everybody is talking about I may upgrade the battery to busbar wire to a 4 or 2
    Lyle & Judy and Annie the Westie
    Retired (Government employee/USMC/USAFR, Ret) & Retired (insurance industry)
    2018 F-350 CC LB DRW 4X4 6.7 (3.55)(Reese 18k "puck system")
    2018 Solitude 310GK (5500 Onan Genset)
    2020 F-150 SCSB XLT 2.7L 10 speed

  8. #28
    Gone Traveling
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    Don't know if this helps, but it's good enough for me. I'll be leaving the wire alone.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #29
    Gone Traveling
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    Quote Originally Posted by EStahley View Post
    Good afternoon! I wanted to provide a follow up for you on this concern.

    Grand Design works closely with all of our vendors, especially Lippert Components. Our leveling systems (both hydraulic and electric) and numerous components supplied by Lippert are subject to a weekly audit. Grand Design used the 50 amp re-settable thermal breaker as instructed by Lippert Components on our standard factory install for our hydraulic Level Up Systems. Even though the gauge of our wiring is capable of handling the higher rated 80 amp breaker, we were directed to continue using the 50 amp breaker in production by Lippert Components. This was eventually reversed by Lippert and we now use the 80 amp thermal breaker. It should be noted there are units built with the 50 amp breaker that have no issue. The performance of the breaker, 50 amp or 80 amp, is directly related to the charge/voltage output of the customer batteries.

    Again this is primarily related to the hydraulic system, not the Ground Control Electric system that is used on Reflection Fifth Wheels.

    While the question of the wire gauge has been brought up, we should clarify that the Wiring is correct for 80 amp breaker. It Says 60amp awg but the voltage handling is high enough to use an 80 amp breaker per Lippert audit.

    Hope this helps clear up any confusion for you all!

    Again, if you ever have questions, or need assistance, please feel free to reach out to our team via email [email protected] or through phone 574-825-9679

    Have a wonderful afternoon!

    Emily


    Emily,

    Just a follow-up comment. Grand Design's Customer Service has improved greatly over the last few months. When I call, I get a live person (not a VM that doesn't get returned until the next day) and if I choose, I can get a call back instead of waiting on hold. I get an accurate and rapid response to my problem. On a recent trip, I had a closet rod fail and we just happened to be going by the factory. Stopped in unannounced, got the part and was on my way. On the same trip, I had a window crank fail and it was waiting for me two days later at my next stop. When a defective D-ring broke, causing my motorcycle to destroy the interior wall of my garage, you team re-routed me through Elkhart on my way home and repaired the coach in one day. What this all means is that since you became the service manager, you and your team have been doing an excellent job. Please keep up the great work!

  10. #30
    Left The Driveway
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    This is an interesting discussion. I just bought a week ago a 2018 Solitude 310GK from a private party. My first 5th wheel but have owned a tow trailer before. I'm trying to learn what I don't know fast. I've been concerned about getting someplace and the hydraulics not working. I have nightmares of getting someplace and can't get the slides in or out or jacks up or down. It sounds like from this discussion that I should make sure I have the 80amp breaker on the hydraulic system. Someone in this thread mentioned going inside and hitting a reset button to buy them another chance or more time to make it work. Where would that reset be located? At this moment I know very little about the coach combined with the fact that I'm not a master mechanic. I'm not even sure where to look for said breaker. There's a bunch of wires and connections in the front storage on the wall just above the batteries. I'm wondering if I provide GD with VIN if they can tell me what breaker was put in at factory. I've already availed myself to this forum and found it helpful. There are lots of people who've been there and done that already and are willing to share their experience. Thanks

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