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  1. #11
    Rolling Along backtrack2015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klenger View Post
    I hope I'm not fanning the flames here, but it makes my skin crawl to hear the word "legal" used in this context. At least in CO and AZ, I am not aware of any laws that prohibit recreational towing above the GVWR and GCWR. These numbers are specifications, not laws. My personal opinion is to build an RV system (trailer and truck) that is within these numbers, and mine are. If I was to go with a modest 5th wheel (29RS??), I'd be facing the same issue as the original poster and would need to ask the same question. I suspect it would cost me upwards of $15,000 to trade up to a new 3500 Ram, so I would have to seriously consider exceeding the numbers. I hope you find a solution you can work with.
    I'm the one who said 'legal' and I clarified my comments just a couple of minutes prior to your post. Sorry about that.
    2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
    2021 Micro Minnie 2100BH
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  2. #12
    Big Traveler SouthTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwilder15 View Post
    Truck has high capacity trailer tow package. So is the rear axle 6340 GVWR reflective of that added package?
    That sounds about right for the camper package, but I can't be sure that there may not be other options involved. The camper package basically adds F350 rear springs and a roll bar. I *think* you can identify the F350 springs because they have a fourth leaf, but I'm not sure.

    There may not be any difference between the F250 and F350 axles. All I know is there is an obvious difference between the rear axles on my '16 F250 and my present '17 F350. Besides the axles and springs, the tire weight rating is critical. The rating is on the sidewall, I believe, and usually they total the axle rating - certainly worth checking.

    This thread is certainly a good example of what was said at the beginning that everyone has an opinion about exceeding GVWR. Other than implying that the sky will fall and lawyers will steal your first born child, no one can tell you why you shouldn't exceed the GVWR assigned by the manufacturer. That's because the ramifications of exceeding it change from situation to situation.

    The manufacturer has certified that the vehicle conforms to various state/federal certification standards. Many of these standards vary according to the GVWR assigned to the vehicle so of course, the manufacturer has to advise the buyer not to exceed the GVWR. Somewhere in the book it says drive safely and don't exceed the speed limit, too. Its your truck, you own it, and you can drive however you want.

    The big thing that some people refuse to acknowledge is that the GVWR is an option chosen by the buyer to fit their needs. A late model F250 can be optioned with a GVWR of either 9,900# or 10,000#. An F350 can be ordered with a GVWR of 11,500# or 10,000#. Same truck, springs, tires, etc. Even the axle weight ratings will be the same. Lots of reasons for that. In many states the cost of registration varies with GVWR. In some states, a GVWR of 10,000 or greater is considered commercial - that means scales, taxes, restricted parking, etc. Go to the manufacturer's build & price website and play with the GVWR options and see if anything changes.

    Here's another example to think about. My 337RLS has a GVWR of 13,995# Doesn't it seem odd that it isn't 14,000? Play with the numbers a bit and you find that most of these rigs are right on the cusp of totalling/exceeding the magic number of 26,001# where a whole 'nother set of rules kick in. That 5# can make a big difference.

    Only you know the ramifications of a certain GVWR on your situation. The actual capacity of the truck likely won't change.

    We had this discussion on this forum one time and it was reported that some Canadian provinces and a few NE states actually scaled non-commercial vehicles to ensure that they were properly registered and the drivers properly licensed. Ya pays ya money, ya takes your chances with GVWR. Exceeding GAWR's is a little different. (I've told this story before, so forgive me if you've heard it.) I had a cab over camper one time that was *significantly* heavier than it was labeled (and I wasn't smart enough to weigh it). I changed a tire every trip before I figured it out. Exceeding those weight ratings have real world consequences.

    To answer your original question, I *think* you'll be OK with the rig you have, but I'm *sure* you'll be happier if you can upgrade. BTDT.

    Best,

    John
    John and Jean
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  3. #13
    Big Traveler CWSWine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthTX View Post

    This thread is certainly a good example of what was said at the beginning that everyone has an opinion about exceeding GVWR. Other than implying that the sky will fall and lawyers will steal your first born child, no one can tell you why you shouldn't exceed the GVWR assigned by the manufacturer. That's because the ramifications of exceeding it change from situation to situation.



    John
    Quoted from GMC webpage.

    "'You may not give much thought about those figures while making short trips or carrying a couple of small items, but when it comes time to load your GMC with lots of passengers or cargo, it’s important to keep your GMC’s GVWR in mind. Failure to do so may result in you exceeding the GVWR and overloading your vehicle.

    Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences, including:


    • Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight
    • Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner
    • Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
    • Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control
    • Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout'"


    https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/...-weight-rating
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  4. #14
    Big Traveler SouthTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
    Quoted from GMC webpage.

    "'You may not give much thought about those figures while making short trips or carrying a couple of small items, but when it comes time to load your GMC with lots of passengers or cargo, it’s important to keep your GMC’s GVWR in mind. Failure to do so may result in you exceeding the GVWR and overloading your vehicle.

    Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences, including:


    • Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight
    • Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner
    • Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
    • Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control
    • Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout'"


    https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/...-weight-rating
    Another reason to buy a Ford.
    John and Jean
    Springer Spaniel furkids Mea and (the late) Molly
    Blogs - BataanMissing.com - AirSafety.info
    2017 Ford F-350 6.7L CC SB, Andersen Ultimate Hitch.
    2018 Reflection 337RLS fifth wheel.

  5. #15
    Site Sponsor Rapid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwilder15 View Post
    I am due to pick up my new 5th wheel next week. I figured i was well within my weight restrictions but after doing all the numbers i am not.
    My truck GVWR is 10,000. The truck payload capacity is 2004. The truck weighs 8220 with me in it. The front axle weighs 4820 (5200 GAWR), rear axle3400 (6340 GAWR). The uvw on the GD 303RLS is 9265, with a pin weight of 1695 (unloaded). Truck can pull 14,700. The number that puts me over is the truck payload capacity. I plan on using the B & W companion slider hitch which weighs around 260. I will be over by at least 500 lbs. Do i need to upgrade my truck to a 350?
    Here ya go...

    2006 2500HD Duramax/2018 303RLS

    Truck itself, loaded to tow:

    front axle: 4200/4670max
    rear axle: 3150/6830max (tire limit, axle and suspension rated to 6900 by gm)
    total: 7350

    Truck and trailer ready to roll:

    front axle: 4400/4670max
    rear axle: 5500/6830max
    trailer axles: 8800/10400max (Dexter 5200 axles, tires good to 14K)

    trailer actual weight: 11150/2350pin 21%

    gross combined weight: 18700/22000max GCWR

    I feel I am well within the specifications that actually have an impact on safe towing. I have airbags but only run 20psi or less as I don't need them for leveling the combination. It pulls well and stops well.

    I have given you what I consider the important weights. You will have to make your own decisions but hopefully, you can decide the significance of each. FWIW, one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum pulls a 303RLS with an F150, properly equipped, of course. I would not go any bigger/heavier with what I have now but I found the truck first, and then matched the trailer to it. Thank goodness it was the one my wife wanted.

    If you look at your axle weights and were to use my trailer as a loaded example, you would still be in the ballpark, weight wise. The only thing I wonder about is why your truck weighs so much to begin with. And by your post, that doesn't include the hitch? Also, I am pretty sure your rear axle rating reflects the rating of the factory installed tires. Another thing you should look into.

    Just my opinion and what I do. You can decide for yourself.
    2018 Reflection 303RLS
    2006 Chev 2500HD Duramax CC/SB/4X4
    Superglide2700 Bakflip F1

  6. #16
    Seasoned Camper
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    I’ve got a 2014 293 which the same as the 303. On the CAT scale my pin weight was 2100lbs ready to go camping. I pulled it with a Ram 2500 with airbags with no issues. Last year I upgraded to a 3500. No need for air bags on the one ton

  7. #17
    Site Sponsor GeoffnCheri's Avatar
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    Pretty consistent with our 303 and truck. Scale numbers below

    Truck Baseline 2011 F250, 6.7L with Pullrite Superglide, full tank of diesel

    Steer #4860
    Drive #3440
    Total #8300

    Scaled while hitched with each truck axle on different scale and both trailer axles on one scale, loaded and ready for camping
    Truck Hitched to 5th wheel (#10,360)
    Steer #4820 (-40#)
    Drive #5540 (+2100#)
    Trailer #8000
    GCVW #18360
    Last edited by GeoffnCheri; 08-23-2018 at 05:30 PM. Reason: added wording
    Geoff and Cheri
    2011 F250 CC 6.7L
    Firestone Ride Rite Airbags
    Pull Rite 16k SuperGlide
    2018 Reflection 303RLS, Build date 9/2017
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  8. #18
    Big Traveler Txfivver's Avatar
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    I too am looking at the 250 vs 350 debate. I posted my weights in an earlier thread and I am about 200 lbs below the 10000 gvw rating but 1100 lbs under the rear axle rating. My pin weight on a 28BH was 1710 or 17% of trailer weight. In prior years the rear axle on both F250 and F350 were in fact the same Sterling 10.5 inch ring gear with 3 inch tubes and 35 spline axles. When they went aluminum body in 2017 the 350's got a heavier beefier Dana 275 rear axle with 4 inch tubes and beefier axle shafts in addition to the normal extra springs. Pretty sure I've read somewhere that they are rated at about 8000 + pounds now. I think for now I'm sticking with the 250 as I'm under all weight limits and it pulls it effortlessly. Just wanted to point out that the rear axles are in fact different now between 250 and 350's.
    2019 Solitude 375RES Onan 5500 Splendide W/D Samsung res. fridge
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    Jeff

  9. #19
    Big Traveler Txfivver's Avatar
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    Here are some pics from another forum on the different axles. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...rear-axle.html
    2019 Solitude 375RES Onan 5500 Splendide W/D Samsung res. fridge
    2020 Ford F450 Platinum dually 6.7L 4:30 gears
    B&W Companion for Ford puck system 20K lbs
    Jeff

  10. #20
    Rolling Along
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    Just wanted to point out that the rear axles are in fact different now between 250 and 350's.
    I believe the same applies to the Ram trucks. I know for a fact that the suspension is totally different between the Ram 2500 and 3500 SRW. I expect the axles are different too, but have not checked.

    I've watched this debate on RV forums for 20 years.

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