Lithium Battery Owners - Some Useful Data

[TucsonJim]

I use LiFeP04. Its common practice to never go below 20%. Not sure what's up but I set my alarm on my radio to alert me at 20% in which I land. For autos, plug in hybrids also do not typically go below 20%. At 20% cutoff there was still far more energy consumed versus a lead acid or AGM so this would not bother me at all.

Jim - Battle Born with their Battery Management System (BMS) is pretty adamant that you can use the full 100 amp hour capacity of their batteries. Here is an answer from them in their FAQ section on charging/discharging:

"Most lead acid batteries experience significantly reduced cycle life if they are discharged more than 50%, which can result in less than 300 total cycles. Conversely LIFEPO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries can be continually discharged to 100% DOD and there is no long term effect. You can expect to get 3000 cycles or more at this depth of discharge."

[MidwestCamper]

Jim - Battle Born with their Battery Management System (BMS) is pretty adamant that you can use the full 100 amp hour capacity of their batteries. Here is an answer from them in their FAQ section on charging/discharging:

"Most lead acid batteries experience significantly reduced cycle life if they are discharged more than 50%, which can result in less than 300 total cycles. Conversely LIFEPO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries can be continually discharged to 100% DOD and there is no long term effect. You can expect to get 3000 cycles or more at this depth of discharge."

Jim, I would really like to purchase one of these batteries but I feel their warranty is weak for me to do it. A three year full replacement and 5 year free repair (with a reasonable turnaround) would do it for me. Their battery management system may shut off at 100% based on the voltage drop but there will still be energy in the battery where its not good to total discharge the cells. This is not an issue where I would discharge 80% if it were my battery where others can do as they want. What I get from Battle Born's statement is that their battery actually has more than 100ah capacity so you get the advertised 100ah at what should be an 80% discharge. But their voltage chart goes lower where I would stop the discharge at 80% available voltage and keep it in the green per their chart.

[sande005]

I've only casually looked at Battle Born's information, so feel free to correct if not complete....but having used LiFe's for a long time for other applications:

1. The main reason for the "don't go below 20%" advice most give, is that they stay so consistent, then drop their voltage VERY quickly - so it can be hard to catch them before they get to 100%. A very accurate monitoring system is a must. A cheap voltmeter may not have the accuracy needed. BB may actually be using cells that have a bit more capacity than 100Ah, and circuitry that catches them a bit earlier than true 100%. But experience has taught me that many LiFe's can suffer permanent failure if truly discharged to 100%, even just once. At minimum, their total life is severely degraded. Something to be aware of if not using a "package solution".
2. LiFe's can be used in cold (winter) conditions. But recharging when cold can also drastically shorten their life. Check with the manufacturer about recommended temps. if you will be camping in cold weather.....
3. All Lithium batteries, if not to be used for a length of time, will exhibit shortened life if stored at 100% SOC. The damage will be cumulative. So again, check with the manufacturer about their recommended "storage charge".

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Jim, I would really like to purchase one of these batteries but I feel their warranty is weak for me to do it. A three year full replacement and 5 year free repair (with a reasonable turnaround) would do it for me.

They have a 10 year warranty now.

So stop making excuses!

lol

[emoji868]



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[TucsonJim]

They have a 10 year warranty now.

So stop making excuses!

lol

[emoji868]



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Ed - When I go to their website, the warranty still says three years. Have you found anything official about the 10 years yet?

Jim

[MidwestCamper]

I've only casually looked at Battle Born's information, so feel free to correct if not complete....but having used LiFe's for a long time for other applications:

1. The main reason for the "don't go below 20%" advice most give, is that they stay so consistent, then drop their voltage VERY quickly - so it can be hard to catch them before they get to 100%. A very accurate monitoring system is a must. A cheap voltmeter may not have the accuracy needed. BB may actually be using cells that have a bit more capacity than 100Ah, and circuitry that catches them a bit earlier than true 100%. But experience has taught me that many LiFe's can suffer permanent failure if truly discharged to 100%, even just once. At minimum, their total life is severely degraded. Something to be aware of if not using a "package solution".
2. LiFe's can be used in cold (winter) conditions. But recharging when cold can also drastically shorten their life. Check with the manufacturer about recommended temps. if you will be camping in cold weather.....
3. All Lithium batteries, if not to be used for a length of time, will exhibit shortened life if stored at 100% SOC. The damage will be cumulative. So again, check with the manufacturer about their recommended "storage charge".

Sande005,
This has been my practice as well where I store my batteries at 50% capacity in regard to line 3. Different types will have slightly different cell voltage but I practice the 20% rule on all of them to be safe.

[MidwestCamper]

They have a 10 year warranty now.

So stop making excuses!

lol

[emoji868]



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I can look again but I'm not seeing that. Also the company "Smart Battery" offers a lifetime warranty but there are holes in their warranty that makes it worthless. The turn around time on repair these guys list is also unacceptable. And what does that shipping cost both ways? If I lived in the west this would not be an issue but I live in Michigan. I inquired with Battle Born on their cells.....place of manufacturer and the company and they refused. If they came back and stated "A123" I may bite.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

I can look again but I'm not seeing that. Also the company "Smart Battery" offers a lifetime warranty but there are holes in their warranty that makes it worthless. The turn around time on repair these guys list is also unacceptable. And what does that shipping cost both ways? If I lived in the west this would not be an issue but I live in Michigan. I inquired with Battle Born on their cells.....place of manufacturer and the company and they refused. If they came back and stated "A123" I may bite.

Let me ask you this, what battery are you using now? and how good is the warranty on it?

Personally if I had no warranty at all I’d still run these batteries over lead acid and AGM, solely for the immense advantages they offer.
It’s like comparing a Ferrari to a Kia.


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[MidwestCamper]

Let me ask you this, what battery are you using now? and how good is the warranty on it?

Personally if I had no warranty at all I’d still run these batteries over lead acid and AGM, solely for the immense advantages they offer.
It’s like comparing a Ferrari to a Kia.


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Ed,

I'm not challenging you and Jim on your choice to go with the Lithium's. I would really like to do this myself. The batteries I buy are large packs that will operate a 2.5 Hp motor on a 3d plane where this battery may be $150.00. I can take that risk. But if I buy a $1200 battery and it fails at three years (and I bought a dedicated charger) I will not be happy. I guess I am too cheap to take the risk. You are right, my lead acid battery is a Kia.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Ed,

I'm not challenging you and Jim on your choice to go with the Lithium's. I would really like to do this myself. The batteries I buy are large packs that will operate a 2.5 Hp motor on a 3d plane where this battery may be $150.00. I can take that risk. But if I buy a $1200 battery and it fails at three years (and I bought a dedicated charger) I will not be happy. I guess I am too cheap to take the risk. You are right, my lead acid battery is a Kia.

I'll just say this, do some more research. There's plenty of evidence they last much longer than 3 years.
And I don't know where you get your info, but these have never cost $1200. I paid $925 for mine last year.
If you're content with your batteries, cool, stick with 'em.