Battery and Charger Discussion Again..........

[surfintom]

I know this has been discussed to death. Sorry to bring it up again, but I'm hoping for some specific advice.

My plan is to buy 2 6-volt batteries and a new charger. I think my factory battery is disappointing and I blame the charger. That could be wrong. Maybe it was my fault or faulty expectations, but I'm sure 2 new batteries will give me better service and I've heard the OE charger is questionable. I store my trailer in a heated warehouse and keep it plugged in.

So does anyone know which type battery makes the most financial sense from a long term perspective? I would pay for lithium if it was the smartest long term choice. Do they last twice as long as AGM? Is there a dependable brand that doesn't cost as much as the others?

Also, my current battery is a Group 27. It sits in a vented box in the front storage. There's no reason I need to stick with Group 27 or venting for AGM or lithium - right? I'd like to achieve the best price/performance point in terms of size and type. And what should I do about that hole in the floor?

Is the PD9260 worth the $220 or is there a smarter choice for charger? I would like to just swap out the factory unit, unless someone can defend it.

Thanks, y'all.

[MidwestCamper]

I know this has been discussed to death. Sorry to bring it up again, but I'm hoping for some specific advice.

My plan is to buy 2 6-volt batteries and a new charger. I think my factory battery is disappointing and I blame the charger. That could be wrong. Maybe it was my fault or faulty expectations, but I'm sure 2 new batteries will give me better service and I've heard the OE charger is questionable. I store my trailer in a heated warehouse and keep it plugged in.

So does anyone know which type battery makes the most financial sense from a long term perspective? I would pay for lithium if it was the smartest long term choice. Do they last twice as long as AGM? Is there a dependable brand that doesn't cost as much as the others?

Also, my current battery is a Group 27. It sits in a vented box in the front storage. There's no reason I need to stick with Group 27 or venting for AGM or lithium - right? I'd like to achieve the best price/performance point in terms of size and type. And what should I do about that hole in the floor?

Is the PD9260 worth the $220 or is there a smarter choice for charger? I would like to just swap out the factory unit, unless someone can defend it.

Thanks, y'all.

The wife and I were dry camping this past weekend where my flooded deep cycle battery would need about a 5 hour charge each day to get us through the night running the furnace. By both mornings I would be at 12.29 v and 12.00 volts which just made it. The problem with your deep cycle battery is not the charger but the battery itself. Deep cycle flooded batteries will only take up to 10amps of charging due to their high internal resistance. Some folks here use lithium and love them since they have the highest energy density and will charge very quickly. You can use the WFCO charger on these but performance would improve with a special charger made for the lithium's. I've stated several times on this forum that I do not trust the weak warranties from the two main lithium suppliers and do not like their use of Chinese cells. If they were closer to me, I might still buy one since I would not have to pay for shipping for warranty and repair should I need it. For me, I will be going to AGM and based on my needs, two group 24 AGM VLRA batteries will work. The AGM will take a higher rate of charge due to lower internal resistance and can be discharged slightly deeper without a penalty to longevity.

[Cate&Rob]

There's no reason I need to stick with Group 27 or venting for AGM or lithium - right?

It is a very common "sales pitch" that AGM batteries do not need to be vented. They are still lead/acid batteries and will (under the wrong set of charging circumstances) vent hydrogen gas. In an enclosed space with potential sources of ignition (motors, switches, relays) they should be in properly vented boxes.

One easy solution is to put a mirror image battery installation on the other side of the front compartment, which is what I did.

Rob

[sande005]

This gets complicated pretty fast, but the first question is: What is disappointing about your current setup?

Then rank your priorities:
Most economic over the long term? (How long - 5 yrs?, 10 yrs?, more?)
Longest life before needing to replace?
Most power output before needing to recharge?
Fastest recharge time?
Least amount of modification to the trailer to install?
Will you want/need to modify the charging system for them, and does that play into consideration for "most economical"?
Lowest weight?
Least amount of care/feeding/attention?

Each of the above impacts the others, so most economical may result in low run times and more frequent replacement. Most power may make them less economical. Etc.

As noted, AGM's are just lead-acid batteries, and must be vented.
In general for any lead-acid, 2 6v will give you greater capacity than two (or sometimes 3!) 12 v. But that generality can change a lot depending on what sizes of each you are talking about, and at what expense level.
Some are fine with running small-ish discount store batteries, even if they have lower capacity and more frequent replacement, as they can be lowest long term cost.
Some run very expensive big lead-acid types to give greatest power and longer life, as that is more important than long term economics.
Some run lithiums, to give highest output, fast recharge, and potential longer life - but the jury is still out on the long term economics. They just haven't been around for RV's (or boats) long enough to have a good read on how well their promise of long life stands up to actual use.

Hence why there is no clear cut answer - just ranges of choices with pluses and minuses for each.
At a start, let us know what factors are making you consider the changes you are contemplating, and we'll try to give some concrete options.

[jmbopp]

I have an IOTA-55 stand-alone converter I've had in 3 trailers now. Currently it's mounted in the pass-through storage area in our Imagine TT. I ran 6ga welding cable to the dual 6V golf cart batteries on the tongue. Having a stand-alone converter 1) gives a better charging profile than the factory WFCO and 2) it's a shorter run to the batteries. The factory converter is still in place, the charging side is disconnected by the circuit breaker and I just use it as an AC & DC distribution center.

[surfintom]

This gets complicated pretty fast, but the first question is: What is disappointing about your current setup?
Most economic over the long term? (How long - 5 yrs?, 10 yrs?, more?)
Longest life before needing to replace?
Most power output before needing to recharge?
Fastest recharge time?
Least amount of modification to the trailer to install?
Will you want/need to modify the charging system for them, and does that play into consideration for "most economical"?
Lowest weight?
Least amount of care/feeding/attention?
At a start, let us know what factors are making you consider the changes you are contemplating, and we'll try to give some concrete options.

I just bought my Reflection (a year ago) and just retired, so long term means 10-15 years. It came with a single wet LA bat.
I went up to Moraine Park in RMNP a couple weeks ago and was sure we were going to plug in so didn't bring my gen or solar panels. Oooops. The battery ran the furnace the first night. I plugged into and ran the truck for about an hour the next day. I had my solar charge controller in the compartment with the bat, and thought it read good numbers, but I'm a noob and not sure what numbers I was looking at. That night, the batt didn't run the furnace all night. Everything shut down. I bundled up and went outside to start the truck. Turns out a chinook had blown in and it was about 60 outside. Funny. Lucky. I don't think this will happen again. I'll bring the gen and the panels with me from now on. I want batts that will fully charge quickly using the 100W solar when it's sunny and the gen when it's not. The gen is a beast. I think it's near 100 lbs. We'll also use it when we need A/C or want to watch a movie.
As I said, I keep the rig in a warehouse and plugged in. I've heard the WFCO will overcook batts. True? Junk? (some have said so)

[acadiaforever]

The Battle Born LiFePo4 batteries made in Nevada have just raised their warranty to 10 years, but they're WAY more than twice the price. I'll be writing up my solar install soon. BTW: Thanks, DMB!

[MidwestCamper]

It is a very common "sales pitch" that AGM batteries do not need to be vented. They are still lead/acid batteries and will (under the wrong set of charging circumstances) vent hydrogen gas. In an enclosed space with potential sources of ignition (motors, switches, relays) they should be in properly vented boxes.

One easy solution is to put a mirror image battery installation on the other side of the front compartment, which is what I did.

Rob

The other down side to AGM is their sensitivity to overcharging. If they vent, there is no way to replace the lost constituents. Do you use the WFCO factory charger for your AGMs Rob? What size batteries did you go with? I do not want to add too much weight and have been leaning toward 2x group 24s.

[Cate&Rob]

The other down side to AGM is their sensitivity to overcharging. If they vent, there is no way to replace the lost constituents. Do you use the WFCO factory charger for your AGMs Rob? What size batteries did you go with? I do not want to add too much weight and have been leaning toward 2x group 24s.

Hi Jim,

I don't use AGMs . . . just regular deep cycle batteries. Usually whatever is on sale at Walmart or similar. I can buy fresh batteries every three years for less than the twice as expensive AGMs that "might" last 6 years. I have six group 27 deep cycle batteries on my boat and have been doing this for years .

On the RV, I have two deep cycle group 24s. The OE battery boxes are supposed to hold 27s, but I upsized my battery cables to 2 ga for my (seldom used) inverter and fitting these cables in through the box side entrance works better with the group 24s. We seldom camp without shore power, so this works for us.

I am using the original WFCO converter on the RV and (despite advice to the contrary on this forum) it seems to be doing a fine job of maintaining my batteries.

Unless I am using the inverter, I only use one battery at a time. I installed a 1/2/both/off battery switch. This way of using the batteries tells me how much time I have with whatever we are doing, per battery. So, if (for example) running the furnace kills the battery in 4 hours, I know that I only have four more hours when I switch to the other fully charged battery.

Rob

[MidwestCamper]

Hi Jim,

I don't use AGMs . . . just regular deep cycle batteries. Usually whatever is on sale at Walmart or similar. I can buy fresh batteries every three years for less than the twice as expensive AGMs that "might" last 6 years. I have six group 27 deep cycle batteries on my boat and have been doing this for years .

On the RV, I have two deep cycle group 24s. The OE battery boxes are supposed to hold 27s, but I upsized my battery cables to 2 ga for my (seldom used) inverter and fitting these cables in through the box side entrance works better with the group 24s. We seldom camp without shore power, so this works for us.

I am using the original WFCO converter on the RV and (despite advice to the contrary on this forum) it seems to be doing a fine job of maintaining my batteries.

Unless I am using the inverter, I only use one battery at a time. I installed a 1/2/both/off battery switch. This way of using the batteries tells me how much time I have with whatever we are doing, per battery. So, if (for example) running the furnace kills the battery in 4 hours, I know that I only have four more hours when I switch to the other fully charged battery.

Rob

Based on our needs two group 24s will work for us since if we dry camp its for a weekend typically. The price point on AGMs is higher but I see their use in applications from many manufacturers with start stop technology where they seem to be holding up very well under constant cycling.