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  1. #21
    Left The Driveway
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    my sticker on the door is 2300ish. im not home right now to give you the exact number

  2. #22
    Site Sponsor 315RLTSinPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerryr View Post
    Yep, Most are overweight and don't realize it.
    Nope, the salesman said they could tow any trailer on the lot.
    2018 Reflection 315RLTS
    2023 F350 Lariat 6.7L/CC/LB/FX4

  3. #23
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Ordering 2970RL advice on Truck size

    Quote Originally Posted by jthorpe05094 View Post
    my sticker on the door is 2300ish. im not home right now to give you the exact number
    Mine too. And your TT GVWR is the same as my 5er. Unless you travel with all tanks empty and almost no cargo, you’re probably overweight on payload.

    : )




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by DaveMatthewsBand; 01-02-2019 at 06:02 PM.
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  4. #24
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    Funny how most dealers say you can tow anything with what you have to drive. Many years ago, I was running an adult baseball league that had 8 baseball fields that we maintained. One of our members had a John Deer Front End Loader that we used. I pulled that thing all over Central Texas with a Chevy S-10. I will say that there were some times that I didn't think the wheels were touching the ground. But hey, they said the S-10 could tow anything.

    With our Jayco, they said that we could tow it with our Chevy 1500 Z71. We could, but not very safely. Much better with the Chevy 2500HD. Then we got the GD 311BHS, towed it with the Chevy 2500 for nearly a year and it did great, but we were at if not over the weight limits (our dealer did say that we shouldn't load the 311BHS with fresh water or add a bunch of stuff to the unit). This caused a lot of bucking during starts and stops. Now with the Chevy 3500HD (with the exception of diesel mileage) I feel I can tow the 311BHS anywhere without worrying about weights.

    The dealers job is to sell you a unit. It is not his job to decide if your TV can safety tow that unit. After all you signed the papers knowing what the unit weighted and what your TV was. He's out of the legal loop incase of an accident. Also your insurance company may balk if they determine that you were over the weight limits while towing.

    Best advise is to get all of the information on truck weights, what the unit weights, calculate the empty unit pin weight. Then calculate the full unit pin weight ('cause we all know "Momma" ain't going nowhere with an empty trailer). If your over or close to being over then you need to consider a truck upgrade.

    Don't be a member of the three time new TV club (of which I'm member #1 ).
    Les and Sharon Bevil
    Austin, Tx

    Reflection 311BHS purchased March 2017
    Jayco 32BHDS sold March 2017
    2012 Chevrolet 2500HD 6.6 Diesel (until May 2018)
    2015 Chevrolet 3500HD 6.6 Diesel

  5. #25
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustexGP View Post
    Funny how most dealers say you can tow anything with what you have to drive. Many years ago, I was running an adult baseball league that had 8 baseball fields that we maintained. One of our members had a John Deer Front End Loader that we used. I pulled that thing all over Central Texas with a Chevy S-10. I will say that there were some times that I didn't think the wheels were touching the ground. But hey, they said the S-10 could tow anything.

    With our Jayco, they said that we could tow it with our Chevy 1500 Z71. We could, but not very safely. Much better with the Chevy 2500HD. Then we got the GD 311BHS, towed it with the Chevy 2500 for nearly a year and it did great, but we were at if not over the weight limits (our dealer did say that we shouldn't load the 311BHS with fresh water or add a bunch of stuff to the unit). This caused a lot of bucking during starts and stops. Now with the Chevy 3500HD (with the exception of diesel mileage) I feel I can tow the 311BHS anywhere without worrying about weights.

    The dealers job is to sell you a unit. It is not his job to decide if your TV can safety tow that unit. After all you signed the papers knowing what the unit weighted and what your TV was. He's out of the legal loop incase of an accident. Also your insurance company may balk if they determine that you were over the weight limits while towing.

    Best advise is to get all of the information on truck weights, what the unit weights, calculate the empty unit pin weight. Then calculate the full unit pin weight ('cause we all know "Momma" ain't going nowhere with an empty trailer). If your over or close to being over then you need to consider a truck upgrade.

    Don't be a member of the three time new TV club (of which I'm member #1 ).
    Congratulations on your new group. Nothing personal, but I hope I don't join you in it.
    2018 Imagine 2800bh
    2018 Ram 2500
    6.4 heni

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabhoyt View Post
    I find it extremely interesting that the two grand design dealerships I have been consulting are both adamant that you can pull an imagine 2970 with a half ton truck. As they say, "everyone uses a half ton truck with no problem." That statement alone concerns me. Shouldn't the Grand Design dealer be providing you with safety information that is correct? The Ram Truck dealers have a computer calculation to determine if the truck you are considering can pull the trailer. The only flaw in their computer program is that there is no where to calculate using a hitch to control tongue weight. Therefore, they are calculating the ability of the Ram truck to pull the trailer off the ball hitch only. Either way, the Ram truck calculation comes out to say to pull a 2970 you need a 3/4 ton truck. Obviously, what the truck says it can pull is not actually what he can pull in reality. I am concerned that many people listen to the Grand Design dealerships and get stuck in a truck that can not safely pull the imagine 2970.
    This has nothing to do with GD, and everything to do with the dealerships. They all do it. The only one of the 5 within 100 miles of my home that didn't do this, happened to be the GD dealer we will likely be buying our 2400BH, or a rockwood mini lite 2509 from the same dealer.

    Our journey is a little different in that my wife and I both grew up with pop-ups, and her parents currently have a 28' jayco bunkhouse. They purchased the first thing they looked at, didn't think about their needs, and are now looking at an imagine 2500RL. Because of their camper, we see a few things we don't feel we need, like the couch, because we spend very little time inside while camping. I use the outdoor kitchen on their camper 90% of the time and sit in the U dinette. The kids almost always play on the bunk. I also want something shorter and easier to maneuver because I'll likely be doing a lot of the set up solo because we have a 2 and 4 year old.

    I have a thread on the tow vehicle section that has a lot of info. Long story short, my 13 F-150 only had 1375 payload. By the time you put 800-900 pounds on the hitch (trailer gross is 7500lbs), and load the 4 of us and a 60 pound boxer, we are at payload, and over in a couple years as the kids grow. I've towed the above jayco, empty, and it wasn't terrible but not something I want to do with the kids in the truck. The 5 extra feet behind the axles makes a huge difference and semis could push me around more than I liked. I started looking at gas F-250s (I'm a ford guy). I was ready to order one optioned the way I liked, when the sales manager encouraged me to look at a new F150. With some changes in configuration (lower rear end gear) and updates to the truck, the 18's and 19's had well over 1700 pounds of payload. 20mpg commuting to work sounded a lot better than the 12 the 250 will get, and this truck has a couple hundred pounds of payload to spare. While I would love to not even worry about what we bring because I have 3000+ pounds of payload that most gas 3/4 ton trucks have, I decided that being comfortable the other 95% of the time was more important, and I still have a truck that's up to the task of towing the trailers I am currently considering.

    If/when I upgrade from here, it will be into a 1 ton diesel and a 5th wheel. Until then, I'll limit my camper selection to a smaller one that's easier/safer for me to tow with the truck I currently have. If I want a ton of extra room to lounge and watch TV, I'll stay home. I camp to get outside and enjoy being away from home.
    Last edited by pilotpip; 01-05-2019 at 08:38 AM.

  7. #27
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    Cool What "Ev'abody Knows..." Ain't.

    Etch into your memory:

    These are the progressions of truck suitability: POSSIBLE, RATED, SAFETY and COMFORT.

    There is a HUGE difference between how much weight your truck CAN tow, how much weight it is RATED to tow, how much weight it can tow SAFELY and how much weight it can tow COMFORTABLY.



    My name is NAJATAAGIHE and I am a member of both the Two-Time Trailer Club and TWICE a member of the Two-Time Truck Club.


    Yes, Virginia, you CAN tow a 2950 (like mine) or a 2970 with a 1/2 ton truck. However, you WILL be pushing, if not exceeding, the limits of the truck. The biggest problem is not payload (as is the usual case) but tongue weight.

    Loaded to be used, that sucker puts anywhere from 1200-1400# on the hitch. Note that most 1/2 ton trucks have a Class IV hitch that limits the tongue weight to 1000#.

    That is a problem. Don't do it. If you replace the hitch with a Class V, you still have problems. Attend:


    Tale of Woe:

    Pliocene Epoch

    My parents hauled an 32-foot-long 8000# 1956 American House Trailer with a 1959 Chevy Impala with a 283 V-8. Even with the first-generation Reese weight-distributing hitch, that thing was squirrely (add as much emphasis on the word "squirrely" as you wish - it still won't be enough).

    They traded the Chevy for a 1963 Ford Galaxie 500XL with the 396 motor and air bags. Not nearly as squirrely, but we didn't move the trailer unless absolutely necessary.

    Solution: a Franklin 18-foot-long trailer to be used as a guest house or to be towed to my Dad's work location, when necessary, leaving the American parked. The Galaxie was used for the big trailer and the little one was towed with his 1956 Ford pickup.


    Pleistocene Epoch

    Having been booked into a Washington, D.C. hotel where we had to fight the roaches for the comfy chair and the TV remote (they claimed they lived there, full-time, so they got dibs), Dearly Beloved (DB) and I decided to get our own hotel room and haul it around with us.

    First, we bought the truck (mistake). We bought an absolutely lovely 2000 Chevy 3500 Long-Bed, Crew Cab dually with the 454 gas motor. After hauling whatever I wanted to haul for four years, we went trailer shopping.

    I wanted and had sized the truck for a travel trailer about 30 feet long. We found one we both liked (Hallelujah!). On the way home, she spotted a new dealership and wanted to check it out. Since the dealer had just opened, everything was on sale. (See where this is going?)

    Upshot of it was, he had a 36-foot-long 5th wheel that, as far as DB was concerned, was the cat's pajamas, the cat's bedsheets and the cat's bed and frame all rolled into one, FOR THE SAME PRICE AS THE TRAVEL TRAILER.

    "Yes, you can tow anything with a one-ton." Famous last words.

    We took ONE 100-mile trip with that thing and I thought I was going to blow the motor up climbing the pitiful little hills between Montgomery and Birmingham, Alabama.

    I (FINALLY) checked the numbers as so many here recommend you do FIRST. 10,000# truck capacity, 12000# trailer. Oops.

    Traded my lovely one-ton for a new 2005 Chevy 3500 Diesel. Problem SOLVED!!!


    Holocene Epoch

    By now, we had traded the 5th wheel, one-ton combination for a 2007 36-foot Fleetwood Bounder 36Z. Loved it, but really had a hard time trying to find places to put it. Too long, too high and too much overhang behind the rear axle. Bye-bye, Bounder.


    Modern Epoch

    Perusing an RV dealership lot in 102° heat, we stepped into a Grand Design Imagine 2600RB to get out of the sun while the sales guy went to get the keys to a Class C unit in which we were interested. Immediate 20° drop in temperature and the thing was just sitting out in the sunshine with no power on. One look at the interior and DB says, "This one."

    Huh? I don't have a tow truck, remember? That 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic with the V-6 motor is NOT going to pull this trailer. "Get another truck." Hot-diggety!

    Bought a 2015 Ford F-150 with the 5.0L V-8 Coyote motor. PERFECT MATCH! All numbers within ratings and tows like a dream with that Hensley Arrow hitch on the back. No sway, no effort, just go.

    Yay!


    Not so fast, Lone Ranger. DB realizes that the trailer is too small and she has a hard time trying to walk around the bed to get in it. Plus, there is no place for our grown daughter to sleep other than the middle of the kitchen floor where I can't get to the coffee pot.

    Well, I can wait for coffee, but DB has such a hard time trying to get in the bed that she starts sleeping in the recliner. Not acceptable. I like to snuggle.

    So, perusing the Grand Design website, since I was impressed by the quality of the 2600RB and the service at the dealership (Dixie RV in Calera, if you must know. Wonderful folks.), I found the ONLY model with the door on her side of the bed - the 2950RL we have now hauled across the country and back.

    TECHNICALLY within the capabilities of the F-150, IF it wasn't carrying ANY water, DRIVING that rig was a challenge. No nightmares or white knuckles, but not pleasant and requiring my full attention.

    The sound of that motor screaming prevented any pleasant conversation and I was too busy watching traffic to talk, anyway - no "oomph" even out of that V-8. I used a performance tuner on the truck, added a Timbren Suspension System, a K&N Performance Intake Kit and a Magna-flow cat-back exhaust and it STILL struggled to deal with that trailer.

    Since we were already planning on going to Seattle, necessitating traveling through the Tetons, the Rockies and any other mountain range we might find, I knew that truck was not going to be pleasant, at all.

    With heavy heart, I told DB I thought we needed to get a different truck. Her response? "I figured that when we bought the new trailer." Did I tell you I love this woman?


    We now have a 2017 Ford F-350 SRW Short-Bed Crew Cab with the 6.7 Powerstroke Diesel rated for 15000# on the Class V hitch, with OR WITHOUT a weight-distributing hitch and a tongue weight capacity of 1500#. If you think I am going to forgo my Hensley, you are out of your rock-pickin' mind.

    I get 25 MPG on the highway, averaging 18 MPG in city traffic and get 10-11 MPG towing fully loaded.


    We took July off, last year, and drove to Seattle via I-90 and back via I-40. 7550 miles. Many 500-mile and a couple of 600-mile days. No strain, no sweat, no sway and no discomfort, even on some of the most primitive roads left in the country.

    Upon getting home, DB says, "Give me a week to do laundry and catch up on stuff, then let's go again."

    Yes, dear.






    Forget POSSIBLE, RATED, and SAFETY.

    Go for COMFORT when you buy a truck.

    You'll be glad you did.



    Addendum:

    I discovered a couple of weeks ago that the performance tuner I used on the 5.0L gas motor is also the one to use on the 6.7 Powerstroke. Now, I can optimize the truck for towing or performance.

    Optimized for performance, this thing runs like a scalded rabbit. Supposedly, 560 HP and 1145 ft-lbs of torque, instead of the stock 440 HP and 925 ft-lbs. I believe it.

    I have retuned it for Max Towing (488 HP and 1045 ft-lbs) in anticipation of the towing season. It still runs like a rabbit, just not a scalded one.

    Am I happy?


    Last edited by Najataagihe; 02-28-2019 at 09:44 AM.
    2023 Reflection 315RLTS
    2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Short Bed SRW, 6.7L Diesel
    Hensley Swift Arrow

  8. #28
    Long Hauler
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    Good write up.
    As I was reading I was trying to come up with what "DB" meant, so before I form an opinion could you please enlighten me?

    Brian

  9. #29
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Najataagihe View Post
    These are the progressions of truck suitability: POSSIBLE, RATED, SAFETY and COMFORT.
    EPIC post. Thanks for sharing your history with us. I'm going to ignore the part about the tuner for the truck...I'll get myself in trouble.
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

  10. #30
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    Good write up.
    As I was reading I was trying to come up with what "DB" meant, so before I form an opinion could you please enlighten me?

    Brian
    "DB" stands for "Dearly Beloved" - my wife of 42 years.


    Last edited by Najataagihe; 02-28-2019 at 09:38 AM.
    2023 Reflection 315RLTS
    2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Short Bed SRW, 6.7L Diesel
    Hensley Swift Arrow

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