water methanol injection

[Lampton]

Does anyone have any experience with water methanol injection in your tow trucks?

[MidwestCamper]

Does anyone have any experience with water methanol injection in your tow trucks?

Yes on engines in general. I assume you have a gasser (not the F250 listed) and possibly are having knock issues? Or you are playing with the spark advance via HP Tuner or other tools? Methanol is highly corrosive where if you are concerned about freezing Ethanol and water would be the better choice. For warmer weather, water is all you would need to suppress knock. On a properly tuned stock engine, water injection will not make more torque where the water molecules will displace oxygen so its considered another form of dilution such as EGR or high humidity. The main purpose especially on race engines is to suppress knock to allow higher spark advance toward MBT (minimum spark for best torque) which will allow for higher torque and power. I would never add this to a diesel.

[Just Krusen]

Yes on engines in general. I assume you have a gasser (not the F250 listed) and possibly are having knock issues? Or you are playing with the spark advance via HP Tuner or other tools? Methanol is highly corrosive where if you are concerned about freezing Ethanol and water would be the better choice. For warmer weather, water is all you would need to suppress knock. On a properly tuned stock engine, water injection will not make more torque where the water molecules will displace oxygen so its considered another form of dilution such as EGR or high humidity. The main purpose especially on race engines is to suppress knock to allow higher spark advance toward MBT (minimum spark for best torque) which will allow for higher torque and power. I would never add this to a diesel.

This is true.

I used water injection in my trucks back in the late 70's - 80's. It was needed to keep engine knock under control from my modifications.

[Lampton]

Thanks for the feedback. Banks sells them for diesel trucks to help with emissions thus increasing mpg. Don't really want to be the test pilot.

[Airrace]

Hmmm not sure how that would work on the diesel but the guys racing airplanes use water/ethanol mixture (ratio dependent on altitude/temp) called ADI (anti detonation injection) and for a 10 minute race can use up to 15-25 gallons. Granted this is full throttle (2600-2800 rpm) but that would still require a large extra tank in the truck.

[MidwestCamper]

Hmmm not sure how that would work on the diesel but the guys racing airplanes use water/ethanol mixture (ratio dependent on altitude/temp) called ADI (anti detonation injection) and for a 10 minute race can use up to 15-25 gallons. Granted this is full throttle (2600-2800 rpm) but that would still require a large extra tank in the truck.

Ethanol raises octane and cools the incoming air due to evaporation and increases the density of this charge. The water suppresses knock (detonation) where spark advance can be increased to a new knock limit or may even reach MBT which is the optimum spark advance for any engine where the highest torque is achieved. This works the same on E85 equipped cars produced by the big three except its a compromise where E85 can support 15:1 or higher compression ratios. To burn both E85 and gas, the compression ratio is a compromise but E85 properly tuned makes more torque due to the higher octane levels and higher spark advance. The break even point on E85 is to be able to purchase it at or below 70% the current cost of gasoline. If you can find it at this price point, you can save money and make more torque. But plan on stopping more since the air fuel ratio is roughly half that of gasoline at 7:1.

[tourrider]

The water/methanol mixture injection does two things.

1. Increases the MAD (Manifold Air Density) by cooling the surrounding air in the intake, and also after it enters the cylinder. MAD is where you are getting your oxygen, the denser, the better. That's why everyone wants cold air induction, inter-coolers, ice boxes, etc... Forget the boost pressure, it's all in the MAD.

2. The water mixture being injected stays just above the saturation temperature until ignition and then it changes into vapor. This phase changes also adds oxygen molecules from the water, and of course the BTU from the methane.

At least that's what my dad taught me

[Airrace]

Yup it sure does cool the air. I raced a VW stock car and some of the guys ran 100% alcohol and would take the fan off of the air cooled engines. As I recall alcohol has about 79,000 BTU per gallon vs gas at 118,000 BTU. Guys would ran about twice the volume of alcohol and you can see it pour out the tail pipe when off the throttle. The smell was pretty good too. Big HP gain by removing the cooling fan and generator in those little VW engines.