what usually happens to a fifth wheel hitch in a wreck?

[gbkims]

B&W hitch accident thread: https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...light=rollover

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Looks plausible to me.
I’d just bend that A arm back out straight and be good to go.


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[BigGuy82]

Towing home from a fantastic weekend of camping and was rear ended HARD in the rear of the trailer! This impact was at a very sharp angle as an illy operated SUV attempted to cut over from behind me quickly, and in front of another car that was in the next lane. The sharp angle forced the fifth wheel to somewhat skid out from behind the truck, requiring evasive maneuvers. TV is a Ram 2500 diesel pulling a nearly brand new 2019 GD Reflection 303RLS. I use the Andersen Ultimate hitch. The impact jarred the hitch base off of the turnover ball - mostly because the base of the tube and the locking pin both bent under the pressure (pics attached). On a positive note, the hitch remained upright and the safety chains kept the TV and trailer connected, allowing me to slow to a stop. The TN Highway Patrolman stated he had never seen that type of hitch, but he would have expected a full rollover in such an event.

I'm new to the fiver life, so here's my question - what usually happens to a traditional type hitch in an event like this? Does it break, does it break away from the rails in the truck? etc? Asking as I may be getting a new trailer, but I'm definitely getting a new hitch to replace the damaged one. Safety is now one of my biggest concerns. I know what I get with the Andersen, I'd like some feedback on what experience others have seen in similar situations for different hitch types.

Thanks in advance,
Trailmix

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Well, it's actually all good news - you weren't injured and hopefully the other drivers/passengers weren't either. The insurance process will likely be a pain but at the end of the day, you'll make out OK. Of course you are bummed out about this, which to me is the perfect excuse to get an even nicer rig! Good luck getting this sorted out and I'm sure you'll have many great years of camping ahead.

Regarding Andersen vs a standard fifth wheel hitch, let me first post a disclaimer - I am not an Andersen fan for several reasons. I don't want to divert this thread to an Andersen discussion - just want you to know that I do have a bias. That said, your post is an absolutely perfect illustration why ALL ball type hitches (trailer and fiver) require safety chains (as far as I can determine, in every state). Rob correctly pointed out that some Andersen users don't use safety chains, which of course is illegal and vastly unsafe.

I think the Trooper was indicating that it was a good thing the hitch moved because it prevented a tip over. I disagree - a separated fiver going through the cab or being loose in lanes of traffic seems far more dangerous to me. Yes, the breakaway switch will kick in but you still have a lot of momentum and mass. However, there is no arguing that in this case, the chains did exactly what they were supposed to. By the way, does anyone know what those chains are rated at?

[DaveMatthewsBand]

By the way, does anyone know what those chains are rated at?

I can't seem to find an answer to that very good question...

However, I did find this comment from Andersen, basically stating the chains aren't really necessary. Love their grammar too...

https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/do-i-have-to-have-safety-chains-for-my-ultimate-fifth-wheel-connection


Do I have to have safety chains for my Ultimate Fifth Wheel Connection?

This is kind of a grey area. We were tested as a fifth wheel hitch and are approved as a fifth wheel hitch. According to DOT regulations because it is a fifth wheel hitch we does not need safety chains. However we do utilize a gooseneck ball to secure the fifth wheel hitch into place creating a solid base with no moving points. On conventional gooseneck trailers chains are required due to the latching mechanism on the gooseneck trailer. The Andersen Ultimate Connection does not utilize a latch nor does it pivot at the point of the ball. Our unconventional setup is much like the OEM puck system that is utilized to accept fifth wheel hitches sold in the newer trucks today.


Unfortunately it is up to the DOT office to interpret the regulations and laws. We have only heard of one case, out of the 35,000 units that we have on the road today, where the DOT officer insisted on having the customer add safety chains to his setup. For this reason we do offer safety chains (part # 3230) for our Ultimate Connection.

[BigGuy82]

I can't seem to find an answer to that very good question...

However, I did find this comment from Andersen, basically stating the chains aren't really necessary. Love their grammar too...

https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/do-i-have-to-have-safety-chains-for-my-ultimate-fifth-wheel-connection


Do I have to have safety chains for my Ultimate Fifth Wheel Connection?

This is kind of a grey area. We were tested as a fifth wheel hitch and are approved as a fifth wheel hitch. According to DOT regulations because it is a fifth wheel hitch we does not need safety chains. However we do utilize a gooseneck ball to secure the fifth wheel hitch into place creating a solid base with no moving points. On conventional gooseneck trailers chains are required due to the latching mechanism on the gooseneck trailer. The Andersen Ultimate Connection does not utilize a latch nor does it pivot at the point of the ball. Our unconventional setup is much like the OEM puck system that is utilized to accept fifth wheel hitches sold in the newer trucks today.


Unfortunately it is up to the DOT office to interpret the regulations and laws. We have only heard of one case, out of the 35,000 units that we have on the road today, where the DOT officer insisted on having the customer add safety chains to his setup. For this reason we do offer safety chains (part # 3230) for our Ultimate Connection.

That's a confusing statement. The hitch base sits on the gooseneck ball. But isn't the trailer secured to a ball on top of the Andersen using a locking adapter that fits onto the pinbox? That ball and lock does not seem to be much different than the system used on a trailer ball. The standard fifth wheel hitch doesn't rely on and balls or ball locking mechanisms. Also, I don't have a clue what they mean by "Our unconventional setup is much like the OEM puck system that is utilized to accept fifth wheel hitches sold in the newer trucks today." Huh?

Finally, it really isn't up to the DOT office or the law enforcement officer to "interpret" anything. It's their job to enforce the laws as written.

You're correct - their statements are what I like to call "nebulous".

If I did have an Andersen, I'd go with the chains ....

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Nebulous... yessss.

[emoji848]



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[SouthTX]

That's a confusing statement. The hitch base sits on the gooseneck ball. But isn't the trailer secured to a ball on top of the Andersen using a locking adapter that fits onto the pinbox? That ball and lock does not seem to be much different than the system used on a trailer ball. The standard fifth wheel hitch doesn't rely on and balls or ball locking mechanisms. Also, I don't have a clue what they mean by "Our unconventional setup is much like the OEM puck system that is utilized to accept fifth wheel hitches sold in the newer trucks today." Huh?

Finally, it really isn't up to the DOT office or the law enforcement officer to "interpret" anything. It's their job to enforce the laws as written.

You're correct - their statements are what I like to call "nebulous".

If I did have an Andersen, I'd go with the chains ....

Not expecting to change any opinions, here, but the AUH chains issue came up a few weeks ago and I did the research on the state mentioned in that thread.

The Texas vehicle code is quite specific that chains are not required. I carry a copy of the code in my paperwork.

The other state at issue in that thread, California is not as clear cut. The wording of the vehicle code is very ambigious, but the DMV website is clear in stateing that they are not required. One person in that thread stated that a state cop told him that they were required.

At one time or another, I've looked up the vehicle code on every state that someone has claimed requires safety chains for an AUH and I have yet to find a legal requirement for them.

Safety chains may be required somewhere, but I have yet to find a written requirement for them. You can do the research for the state where you're licensed, I don't care one way or another if you get them, I just get tired of people posting incorrect information without making any effort to verify it.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Seems like common sense to use the chains.


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[minnow101]

It’s left up to law enforecement to enforce the laws that are often poorly written or ambiguous at best. And the laws are written that way on purpose(most legislators are attorneys) to allow wiggle room for defense attorneys to argue “their” interpretation in court. So in the real world, police officers apply department and/or individual interpretations when enforcing individual statutes. Its left to the courts to decide whose interpretations are correct. And each judge has his/her own interpretations as well. Welcome to American Jurisprudence.
As for me, I use the chains. Although admittedly, the chances for any RV’er being cited for an improper hitch are pretty insignificant, I for one don’t need to take the chance on having to return to a local court 1,000 mikes away to argue my case which I may or may not prevail. Besides it also provides more room in the glove box as I don’t have to have a binder containing every states towing equipment equipment laws to argue a point with a local cop.

[BigGuy82]

Not expecting to change any opinions, here, but the AUH chains issue came up a few weeks ago and I did the research on the state mentioned in that thread.

The Texas vehicle code is quite specific that chains are not required. I carry a copy of the code in my paperwork.

The other state at issue in that thread, California is not as clear cut. The wording of the vehicle code is very ambigious, but the DMV website is clear in stateing that they are not required. One person in that thread stated that a state cop told him that they were required.

At one time or another, I've looked up the vehicle code on every state that someone has claimed requires safety chains for an AUH and I have yet to find a legal requirement for them.

Safety chains may be required somewhere, but I have yet to find a written requirement for them. You can do the research for the state where you're licensed, I don't care one way or another if you get them, I just get tired of people posting incorrect information without making any effort to verify it.

Actually, it's easy to find out about state-by-state requirements for safety chains - it's right here: https://www.rvia.org/system/files/me...equirement.pdf

This one is even more detailed: http://webspace.webring.com/people/j...yChainLaws.pdf

You'll notice that it's not ambiguous at all - very specific. The interesting thing is that many states don't give a fifth wheel exemption at all, meaning they require chains.

Now, that said, I have never had, seen or heard of any dealer installing safety chains on a fifth wheel. The first one is an RVIA chart and yet, I'm not aware of any pinbox manufacturer (who presumably belongs to RVIA) who installs eyelets for chains on their products. I don't know what dealers do with Andersen's and in fact don't even know if they sell/install them. Has anyone here ever gotten a ticket for not having chains on a fiver? So, even if it is the law, it seems that there is a lot of interpretation on the part of law enforcement.

Now, to address the Andersen specifically - the very fact that they offer them as options and take the time to address the "confusion" tells me you should use them. I haven't bothered to look, but I have never seen any safety chain options offered by fifth wheel manufacturers. After seeing the pictures at the top of this thread, there is no way that I would ever use an Andersen without chains. As far as fifth wheels go, tractor trailers have been using them forever and they have a few decades of use in the RV world. I'm good to go without chains on my Reese Elite fifth wheel.