RV Life Network, Drilling Deeper

[Gyro Gearloose]

I asked a question on Privacy Policy in #34 An exciting announcement! and no response so I decided to do a little digging. Interesting....

So it seems that RV Life Networks is owned by Social Knowledge, LLC. See RV Networks About: http://www.rvlifenetwork.com/about/
It looks like Social Knowledge, LLC is owned by Andy R

Social Knowledge, LLC: http://www.socialknowledge.com/
Social Knowledge Privacy Policy: http://www.socialknowledge.com/privacy/
Terms of Service: http://www.socialknowledge.com/tos/
Seems that Social Knowledge has 3 bundles of Forums.

BBB: https://www.bbb.org/us/tx/southlake/...-0875-90232489
Linkedin: https://www.bbb.org/us/tx/southlake/...-0875-90232489
BuzzFile: http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Soc...C-214-263-2884

I could not find a Privacy Policy for RV Life Network. I went into a number of the RV Life Network sites like Jayco etc. and if you go down to the bottom right, you will see Privacy. If you click on that, it seems to read like the Social Knowledge, LLC 's Privacy Policy.

It looks to me that the business model is based on Marketing....

Let me know if I got anything wrong here

[Gyro Gearloose]

A little more to add,

BTW: Not trying to stir anything up. Just trying to provide some facts so there is less speculation. If anyone is interested.

Here is a Podcast with Andy R. The podcast link is a long listen, but many tidbits of information on him and his philosophy.
https://heathandalyssa.com/rve-120-a...-rv-community/

Pat

[howson]

A little more to add,

BTW: Not trying to stir anything up. Just trying to provide some facts so there is less speculation. If anyone is interested.

Here is a Podcast with Andy R. The podcast link is a long listen, but many tidbits of information on him and his philosophy.
https://heathandalyssa.com/rve-120-a...-rv-community/

Pat

Very interesting podcast, Pat. Thanks for sharing the link.

[Andy R]

Guys, sorry for the confusion. Social Knowledge, LLC is the name I chose for our small business WAY back when (ie. MySpace days). I'm proud of the name because it was created before Facebook or even social networks being a thing. I picked the name because forums are places where people are Social and they share Knowledge.

I never intended to have an RV focused media company, it just sort of evolved that way. As we started to adopt/acquire RV websites, it was hard to meet an RV industry person at an event, explain to him/her that I'm from Social Knowledge who runs various RV websites. So we set out to look for a new name. We call our network of RV websites the RV LIFE Network which makes it real easy for me to introduce myself and people to understand what we do. We currently have a DBA for RV LIFE Network which passes through to the same Social Knowledge, LLC.

Our long term vision is to create a platform that allows the amazing members of each forum community to access other resources in our network. An example of this would be to use your login from Grand Design Owners to leave reviews on RV Park Reviews. Maybe you also post on iRV2 so we want you to have one login which will work across all of our sites. We plan to leave each site like Grand Design Owners alone so it can have it's own unique identity. We know people are fans of their brand and we don't want to disrupt that.

When it comes to our app (link) we are going to have a slightly different approach. We are trying to bring together the resources of our network through one app. Right now the app pulls together our campground info from RV Park Reviews and our articles from DoItYourselfRV.com and RVLife.com. Next year you will be able to access the forums through the app too. It will note replace this website, it's just another way to get to the same community. Our thinking here is to try and expose forums users to our app. Our hope with the app is to crowdsource campground data so we, collectively, can make each others camping experience better.

As for our privacy policy, it's the same on every site. you can see the example here on Winnie Owners:
http://www.winnieowners.com/forums/m...k&page=privacy

The same goes for our Terms of Service:
http://www.winnieowners.com/forums/m...twork&page=tos

Our privacy policy is pretty simple. We don't share any of your info unless you give us consent. Since we were founded, we never provided users the option to give us consent. That means that no one has ever given us consent and we have never shared users info with 3rd parties. We take privacy seriously and treat others like we would like to be treated.

Let me know any other questions you might have!

[Country Campers]

@Andy R , Your app will allow us to use our log in to access your other sites, Will this also allow members from your other sites to view this site for free?
This is concerning for me that I have a paid membership here and others may have free access to what I have paid for. Not having GD presents on our site will also be concerning , I would think these details should have been worked out prior to purchase. If this forum becomes free then I guess that the 3 year membership I signed up for in June of this year only gained me 6 mos of access to a paid for forum, kind of wasteful for me I guess.
Would be nice if this announcement would have been made with all the info needed first instead of bits and pieces a little at a time. Hopefully I am not being to judgmental , but as a business owner I would have all the ducks in a row before making an announcement like this. Hopefully this will be fixed sooner rather than later.

Regards,
Brian

[Houndbb]

Based upon the announcement thread, it’s fairly apparent that Andy is seriously (carefully) reading reading and responding to our concerns. As it was, under Chris’s ownership, anyone with internet access could come here, but unless you were a paid member, you didn’t have access to very valuable assets, such as reference, libraries, and, surprisingly, the specific model forums. Andy has clearly stated that he appreciates the GDO’sF model, and plans no changes. He is trying to make the contacts he needs to make at GD, to keep our relationship going. I, for one, plan to be patient and give him a reasonable chance to get this underway.

I also had a thought (while reading all the policy links kindly provided above). I wouldn’t read much, at this juncture, into the disappearance of our GD logo. Chris obviously had authorization to USE it, but that probably did not include selling it. If Andy is successful, it may return.

Just trying to be the voice of reason here, and avoid any needless panic. I respectfully hear what you’re saying, Brian, but try to think about some possible bennies we might gain at the end of this process
Respectfully, N

[Gyro Gearloose]

This is concerning for me that I have a paid membership here and others may have free access to what I have paid for.

Brian, they have paid, they have adds on their home site.

[Andy R]

@Andy R , Your app will allow us to use our log in to access your other sites, Will this also allow members from your other sites to view this site for free?
This is concerning for me that I have a paid membership here and others may have free access to what I have paid for. Not having GD presents on our site will also be concerning , I would think these details should have been worked out prior to purchase. If this forum becomes free then I guess that the 3 year membership I signed up for in June of this year only gained me 6 mos of access to a paid for forum, kind of wasteful for me I guess.

So it's my understanding that there are a few reasons people like the paid membership model here.
1) No annoying ads
2) keeps the riff raff out
3) exclusive access to content otherwise not available

I understand the above and will make every effort to make sure you keep the same value or get MORE value to say thanks for your support.

Our app has an in-app subscription that's $19.99 per year for "Premium features". It provides offline access to all the campground data we have plus you can download maps for every State (including Canada). We are currently working on RV specific turn-by-turn directions. The goal here is to do what Google Maps can't which is to route RVers on paths which are safe including the ability to stay off of dirt roads, roads where turning around could be an issue, overpass height issues, and bridge weight issues (rarely an issue for a towable).

We also plan to offer no big ads in the app.

My vision is that supporting members, like all those who pay here, would also get access to Premium Features of our app. This is not set in stone but I think it makes a lot of sense. It's going to take us some time to reach this vision because the single sign on system has to get setup and we have to figure out how to make it happen.

I also have a vision that I think contributors should be rewarded for their contributions and loyalty. To me, that's good business. We would like to find a way for members to earn upgraded access by helping each other when it comes to posting campground reviews, photos of campgrounds, interesting places to visit, feedback on rest stations, places to stop overnight, keeping forums lively, etc. We don't have the details worked out on that yet. So far our discussions about contributions for upgraded perks has revolved around RV Park Reviews and providing our top contributors free access to www.RVTripWizard.com as a thank you. I do think that we need to take the forums into consideration though.

Lastly, just to point out one thing. Those posting here all see the value in this forum and have thus paid for their access. To me that's enlightening because we have been doing the ad supported thing since inception. It proves that people find value in forums and I personally want to just observe and learn for a while.

Also, from my personal perspective, the number of places where you can chat has increased significantly over the last decade. You can now pretty much chat anywhere from Facebook, Instagram, comments on blogs or newspaper articles, etc. It seems counter intuitive that you can charge people for a commodity and thrive. BUT.... It seems to be working here fairly well. Could the community here be bigger and the knowledgebase/collective brain capacity be bigger if we had some type of free access? Maybe.

My gut suggests to me (and I hope you can appreciate my transparency and being honest and upfront) that we will end up with some type of hybrid here. If you want to pay you get no ads, you get exclusive access to parts of the forum free members can't access, and you get extra perks on other RV Life sites/apps. This is already done on a limited basis via the free trial. That would leave the issue with keeping the riff raff out which we can figure out.

Once again, the above is just an idea, but to me it preserves the value which people pay for (exclusive access, no ads, welcoming environment) while also allowing us to be of service to more Grand Design owners.

Lastly, I've noted the many comments in support of the current setup. As previously mentioned it's business as usual. Once we get to a point where we need to figure out a solution, we'll cross that bridge when we get there (for example, how will access to the forum work from our app).

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Andy,

The moderators have been basically silent on these discussions and that is on purpose, to let the membership have their say.
I would like to make an observation as a long time participant . . . not as a moderator.

This forum is primarily technical and very specifically focused on the technical details of Grand Design products. This is why I came here and why many others have as well. We have added sub-sections for travel, campgrounds, pets, etc as we got to know our community of members and wanted to share these things . . . but, the main purpose is still technical. Anyone can come here and get an answer very quickly on how another owner solved whatever situation they are dealing with, or who to contact at Grand Design. Take a look at our library . . . it is all technical manuals and problem solutions. Electrical, plumbing, HVAC, suspension, etc . . . many Grand Design owners with different backgrounds have joined us over the years and stayed to share their knowledge. These members are a key part of this forum and are usually the first to step in with expert advice.

Per your comments here and in the podcast interview, I can appreciate that the primary focus that you describe is finding, evaluating and getting to campsites across North America. There are many other tools to do this that we all use today. Maybe yours will be better . . . but, that is not what this forum is primarily about.

The core of this forum grew up with GDRV from its inception about seven years ago. We know the Grand Design executives, designers, plant managers, sales and service guys . . . and they know us. GDRV has always supported and encouraged this forum . . . this is why it is concerning to us to see them step back for unexplained reasons.

Many on this forum have been to FB and the heavily ad supported sites and choose not to participate there. I know that we are guilty of wandering off topic from time to time, but not nearly as far or as negatively as happens regularly on FB and the other sites. On this forum, more often that not, it is one of the regulars (not a moderator) who says “lets get back on topic here”.

When you think “Grand Design Owner’s Forum”, if you think “Technical Community”, this will help you to understand us.

Rob

[Andy R]

Rob, thank you for the above feedback. I understand your point about the technical nature of this site. I also noted earlier we understand each site is unique so your feedback above is even more important to stress what makes it unique!

As for GDRV and their participation here, I believe the participation ebbs and flows over time. It’s my understanding that recently there has been less of a presence. It would be great if we can connect with them to understand what’s going on and if we can get some more attention. Sometimes it’s a resource issue. Ie, someone leaves a company who used to be active and the new person just isn’t a forum guy or maybe they personally use another form of social media and their attention focuses there.

Chris might have some input here?