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  1. #11
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    A soldered connection runs a lot higher risk of failure if excessive current happens in the connection. The more current, the more heating of the connection and a possibility of actually getting hot enough to start allowing the solder to soften. The best way to describe the difference between the two would be that a solder connection is more of an "electrical" connection, while a crimped connection would be more of a "physical/mechanical" connection that not only provides a solid connection, but good electrical properties for conducting current. The resistance of either of those connections would most likely have to be measured with a contact resistance test device that will measure down to the micro-ohm level....so basically the connection resistance is not a factor....unless the solder or crimp connection is done very poorly. The video that you linked to in your previous post was in my opinion, probably a solder connection that would result in a pretty decent connection...but you also have to remember that it is still some company trying to get you to buy their product and make it look as easy as can be. There simply isn't a substitute for a properly crimped connection using the proper equipment (correct sized lugs and correct amount of crimp done by using the correct dyes in the crimper).
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  2. #12
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    I used soldering early on for electronics starting in junior high shop class and then the Navy for point-to-point wiring of components like tube sockets, resistors, capacitors, diodes, circuit boards, coax center conductor contacts, and at home for several Heathkit kits(Breadboard, DMM, O'scope, television).
    At work for the comm/telecom side, still soldered as well as wire wrapping and punch down IDC.
    Then transitioned to screw down terminals, crimp connections for the I&E side, as a hot work permit would be required for soldering in hazardous classified areas like Class 1 Div 2.

    Now I tend to use crimp connectors for lugs, soldering for tap wire splices along with heat shrink adhesive tubing.
    My truck has battery cables that are crimped and soldered heat shrinked as well as numerous soldered factory adhesive heat shrinked splices in the wiring harnesses.

    Flux - Rosin
    https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...s-2-july-2011/
    The strength of the rosin comes in three grades—nonactivated, rosin mildly activated (RMA) and rosin activated (RA).

    Flux-Off for cleaning off the rosin flux.

    Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series - http://www.fcctests.com/neets/Neets.htm
    Module 4 Electrical Conductors, Wiring Techniques, and Schematic Reading NAVEDTRA 14176A 2013 edition Section 2.3 Soldering

    Nasa
    NASA-STD-8739.4
    12. CRIMP CONNECTIONS
    13.3 Assembly of Solder-Type Connectors

    Solder Corrosion (Now I see why we had to remove the conformal coating when replacing Navy circuit board components)
    Corrosion Issues in Solder Joint Design - https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/14961
    Solder joints can be susceptible to atmospheric corrosion, galvanic-assisted corrosion, voltage-assisted corrosion, stress corrosion cracking, and corrosion fatigue
    cracking. Galvanic corrosion is of particular concern, given the fact that solder joints are comprised of different metals or alloys in contact with one-another.
    ...Therefore, preventing exposure to those environments requires the use of barrier coatings or finishes. Coatings maybe organic, such as conformal layers, paints and varnishes.


    Molex Industrial Crimp Quality Handbook

    Crimp / Solder threads I found interesting
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ink-or.305268/
    https://www.euroga.org/forums/mainte...vionics?page=1
    https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projec...ctor-good-bad/

    Boats
    http://www.ancorproducts.com/en/reso...abyc-standards
    "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.” 11.16.3.7.
    https://abycinc.org/blogpost/1678504...ds--Ed-Sherman
    The ABYC E-11 standard is quite clear that “solder shall not be the sole means of electrical connection”. Crimp and then solder yes. Straight solder. NO.
    https://www.sailangle.com/articles/details/id/6
    Last edited by gbkims; 03-18-2019 at 01:51 PM.
    - Gene

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  3. #13
    Seasoned Camper phonemannn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbkims View Post
    I used soldering early on for electronics starting in junior high shop class and then the Navy for point-to-point wiring of components like tube sockets, resistors, capacitors, diodes, circuit boards, coax center conductor contacts, and at home for several Heathkit kits(Breadboard, DMM, O'scope, television).
    At work for the comm/telecom side, still soldered as well as wire wrapping and punch down IDC.
    Then transitioned to screw down terminals, crimp connections for the I&E side, as a hot work permit would be required for soldering in hazardous classified areas like Class 1 Div 2.

    Now I tend to use crimp connectors for lugs, soldering for wire splices along with heat shrink adhesive tubing.
    My truck has battery cables that are crimped and soldered heat shrinked as well as numerous soldered factory adhesive heat shrinked splices in the wiring harnesses.

    Flux - Rosin
    https://www.motor.com/magazine-summa...s-2-july-2011/
    The strength of the rosin comes in three grades—nonactivated, rosin mildly activated (RMA) and rosin activated (RA).

    Flux-Off for cleaning off the rosin flux.

    Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series - http://www.fcctests.com/neets/Neets.htm
    Module 4 Electrical Conductors, Wiring Techniques, and Schematic Reading NAVEDTRA 14176A 2013 edition Section 2.3 Soldering

    Nasa
    NASA-STD-8739.4
    12. CRIMP CONNECTIONS
    13.3 Assembly of Solder-Type Connectors

    Solder Corrosion (Now I see why we had to remove the conformal coating when replacing Navy circuit board components)
    Corrosion Issues in Solder Joint Design - https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/14961
    Solder joints can be susceptible to atmospheric corrosion, galvanic-assisted corrosion, voltage-assisted corrosion, stress corrosion cracking, and corrosion fatigue
    cracking. Galvanic corrosion is of particular concern, given the fact that solder joints are comprised of different metals or alloys in contact with one-another.
    ...Therefore, preventing exposure to those environments requires the use of barrier coatings or finishes. Coatings maybe organic, such as conformal layers, paints and varnishes.

    Crimp / Solder threads I found interesting
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ink-or.305268/
    https://www.euroga.org/forums/mainte...vionics?page=1
    https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projec...ctor-good-bad/

    Boats
    http://www.ancorproducts.com/en/reso...abyc-standards
    "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.” 11.16.3.7.
    https://abycinc.org/blogpost/1678504...ds--Ed-Sherman
    The ABYC E-11 standard is quite clear that “solder shall not be the sole means of electrical connection”. Crimp and then solder yes. Straight solder. NO.
    https://www.sailangle.com/articles/details/id/6
    Very through. Great!^^^ I was an E6 FTM. I am familiar with some of those publications...
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  4. #14
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonemannn View Post
    Very through. Great!^^^ I was an E6 FTM. I am familiar with some of those publications...
    Some of these questions get me to refreshing my memory and learning new things along the way.
    I was a bit surprised to run across the Navy training manuals online last year. Didn't think I'd see them again after A school.
    I had wanted to use them to help study for ET1 and/or FCC General Radiotelephone Operator License while still in, but all were checked out or in use at the schools.
    Somehow I made it to E6 ET
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
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  5. #15
    Seasoned Camper phonemannn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbkims View Post
    Some of these questions get me to refreshing my memory and learning new things along the way.
    I was a bit surprised to run across the Navy training manuals online last year. Didn't think I'd see them again after A school.
    I had wanted to use them to help study for ET1 and/or FCC General Radiotelephone Operator License while still in, but all were checked out or in use at the schools.
    Somehow I made it to E6 ET
    I was an instructor at B double E school at NTC San Diego for 6 years. Basic electricity electronics, for non Navy guys. Every person going on to an electrical field in the Navy goes through BEE school first.
    2017 F350 Lariat, Dual rear wheels
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  6. #16
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    Where I'm coming from is being a Journeyman Electrician for the past 39 years with lots and lots of experience working with everything from 20ga wires all the way up to 1000 MCM high voltage cables. A properly crimped connection is the preferred method of joining the lug/connector to the cable or wire, especially in an environment that is subject to vibration and or movement....as in a travel trailer going down the road.
    I agree 100%. I’ve seen where aircraft mechanics crimp and solder lugs to wires connected to alternator studs only to have the wire break at the solder transition. This has caused both complete loss of electric in flight and or nasty sparking in the engine compartment. It really sucks to have the cockpit go completely dark at night and loose all instrumentation and navigation because someone thought addition of solder would make a connection more reliable.

    A properly crimped connection will out survive a crimped and soldered connection where there’s potential for movement.
    Jerry & Linda
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  7. #17
    Site Sponsor Steven@147's Avatar
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    Man you guys are taking me back 44 years ago to when I was a Navy Aviation Electrician on the A7-E. Solder connections were not allowed back then, crimp only.
    Then much later when I got into drag racing, solder connections on a wiring harness was not a good idea. Yup they would break at the solder joint due to extreme vibrations.
    Then when I had my auto restoration business and installed a lot of new wiring harness. I crimped the connections and had the right crimpers to do the job and not over or under crimp the terminals. Most of the problems with these old cars is the firewall plugs where the wiring passes into the passenger compartments. A lot of corrosion on the terminal connections and then heat builds up in theses connections and then you have a melted bulk head connector.
    The old MOPARs were famous for melted bulkhead connectors where the alternator wire ran through to the amp meter.

    But your RV is not an attack or fighter aircraft bouncing off the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, nor is it a drag racer subject to extreme vibrations. But none the less good repair practices last a long time.
    Yup a lot of what everyone has said I remember. When soldering, using the right solder is important. Corrosion prevention is important. Using the right tool to crimp the connection is important and wire or bundle strain relief is important. Using self sealing heat shrink tubing.

    Its been a long time since I thought about the fuel quantity liquid capacitance system or AFCS systems in those aircraft. Or getting $50 extra / month for working the flight deck as the squadron AE troubleshooter. Thanks for reviving some of those memories.
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