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  1. #11
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcdiesel View Post
    Not anymore, bought some already. My interest is based on the fact I was a technologist in a lithium ion battery manufacturing plant many years ago. Something is not adding up here... either magical tech or not comparing apples to apples...
    Let us know what you find out.



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    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  2. #12
    Big Traveler
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    I've been told this company "K2" is the outfit who is making the new Trojan Trillium battery. Unfortunately, warranties on lithium batteries today is all over the place so its a tough call.

    https://k2battery.com/
    MidwestCamper

    Jim & Dawn
    Near Milford, Michigan
    2017 Imagine 2600RB
    2015 GMC Sierra 1500 Double Cab 4x4

  3. #13
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    New Lithium battery on the market

    I did some checking on the warranty and their official response was...

    Step 1

    Visually inspect for external damage.
    If no damage is apparent, move onto step 2.



    Step 2

    Push the button on the top of the battery.
    If it shows a charge and the battery is not functioning, the customer gets a new battery.
    No questions asked.



    I like the fact that they have that button on top along with a handy little state of charge meter.
    I wish my Battle Borns had this, just as a neato factor. I have a remote display inside the trailer in the living room.
    But it would be cool to be able to just push a button on each one when I'm showing off the setup.

    I asked about the weight difference and will post their response when I hear back from them.

    Ed



    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  4. #14
    King Pin
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    Interesting. They have a warning on top "do not charge in a gas tight container". It sounds like they are concerned about venting during charging.

    Jim

  5. #15
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucsonJim View Post
    Interesting. They have a warning on top "do not charge in a gas tight container". It sounds like they are concerned about venting during charging.

    Jim
    Lithium's can vent if being overcharged/discharged. The BMS should prevent this from occurring and open the circuit.
    Last edited by MidwestCamper; 04-20-2019 at 04:34 AM.
    MidwestCamper

    Jim & Dawn
    Near Milford, Michigan
    2017 Imagine 2600RB
    2015 GMC Sierra 1500 Double Cab 4x4

  6. #16
    Big Traveler
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    I've been looking into lithium batteries for some time and am intrigued with Victron batteries. They sell an external BMS (must be used) that balance charges and will report out on individual cell performance which I really like. I use a high end charger like this on my RC toys. I've not priced their batteries but I believe they come with a three year warranty which needs to be a minimum of 5 IMO. This is fair if ran within the BMS recorded parameters of normal use. Not intended to be a warranty discussion.

    For those who are in the Mid Michigan area in September there will be an international battery show in Novi Michigan that will showcase all options under one roof.
    MidwestCamper

    Jim & Dawn
    Near Milford, Michigan
    2017 Imagine 2600RB
    2015 GMC Sierra 1500 Double Cab 4x4

  7. #17
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    I did some more research, specifically looking into why these new LION Energy lithiums are smaller and quite a bit lighter than my Battle Born lithiums.

    Here's what I've come up with so far...

    There's 2 different physical structures you can go with when building a lithium battery... Cylindrical or Prismatic.


    Cylindrical cell has high specific energy, good mechanical stability and lends itself to automated manufacturing.
    Cell design allows added safety features that are not possible with other formats; it cycles well, offers a long
    calendar life and is low cost, but it has less than ideal packaging density. The cylindrical cell is commonly used for portable applications.


    Prismatic cell are encased in aluminum or steel for stability. Jelly-rolled or stacked, the cell is space-efficient but can
    be costlier to manufacture than the cylindrical cell. Modern prismatic cells are used in the electric powertrain and energy storage systems.


    Battle Born uses cylindrical and therefore their product is bigger and heavier.
    Cylindrical cells look like a bunch of 18650 cells, these are smaller than your household C battery but bigger than a AA.
    Therefore, they take up more space.
    LION Energy uses prismatic, which is more flat and tightly compacted.
    Both work well, just in different ways.


    Here's an article at Battery University that explains these differences in detail:


    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/..._battery_cells

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	lion_energy-safari-ut-front_600x.jpg 
Views:	246 
Size:	11.4 KB 
ID:	19570
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  8. #18
    Seasoned Camper RVLife68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsBand View Post
    I did some more research, specifically looking into why these new LION Energy lithiums are smaller and quite a bit lighter than my Battle Born lithiums.

    Here's what I've come up with so far...

    There's 2 different physical structures you can go with when building a lithium battery... Cylindrical or Prismatic.


    Cylindrical cell has high specific energy, good mechanical stability and lends itself to automated manufacturing.
    Cell design allows added safety features that are not possible with other formats; it cycles well, offers a long
    calendar life and is low cost, but it has less than ideal packaging density. The cylindrical cell is commonly used for portable applications.


    Prismatic cell are encased in aluminum or steel for stability. Jelly-rolled or stacked, the cell is space-efficient but can
    be costlier to manufacture than the cylindrical cell. Modern prismatic cells are used in the electric powertrain and energy storage systems.


    Battle Born uses cylindrical and therefore their product is bigger and heavier.
    Cylindrical cells look like a bunch of 18650 cells, these are smaller than your household C battery but bigger than a AA.
    Therefore, they take up more space.
    LION Energy uses prismatic, which is more flat and tightly compacted.
    Both work well, just in different ways.


    Here's an article at Battery University that explains these differences in detail:


    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/..._battery_cells

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	lion_energy-safari-ut-front_600x.jpg 
Views:	246 
Size:	11.4 KB 
ID:	19570
    Good article. Have you heard from anyone stating that the batteries listed here. Are made with these tow technologies or is this a inference based on the article. I didn’t read and of the comments in the battery University Discussion. Perhaps someone commented there on the lion battery?
    I’m currently trying to track down a local distributor of lithium batteries. I think I’ll also get in contact with Canada energy and here what they have to say. I thought the most important aspect of these LiFEP04 was the charge technology. Is this not the case anymore?
    2018 F-350 6.7L diesel SRW CCSB Lariat with OEM rolling tonneau
    Pullrite Superglide OE Series #2914, Titan 55Gal Tank(midship)
    2018 Momentum 354 M-Class no mods yet.

  9. #19
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
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    Lion Energy said via email that they use the prismatic technology.

    The weight blows my mind.
    100 useable amp hours for only 20 lbs!
    If I had 400ah of Lion Energy lithiums, my entire bank would weigh a mere 80 lbs. versus the 119 lbs my Battle Borns weigh.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  10. #20
    King Pin
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsBand View Post
    Lion Energy said via email that they use the prismatic technology.

    The weight blows my mind.
    100 useable amp hours for only 20 lbs!
    If I had 400ah of Lion Energy lithiums, my entire bank would weigh a mere 80 lbs. versus the 119 lbs my Battle Borns weigh.
    Ed - Time to dump those Battle Borns and adopt this new battery. How about I give you $100 apiece for those BB's? ;-)

    Jim

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