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  1. #1
    Setting Up Camp
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    Bad Converter (me thinks)

    Had my maiden voyage and shakedown cruise this weekend at a local camp ground by the ocean. Went through and tried and tested everything. Was thinking I was one of the lucky ones that got an absolutely perfect unit. That ended the first night at about 3:00am when I woke up to use the toilet (yeah uninterrupted sleep ended a long time ago) and discovered I had no lights. Some quick checking and I realized my battery was dead.

    In the morning I ran home to retrieve my charger and brought the battery backup. Disconnected the charger and ran everything as normal and sure enough after about 6 hours battery was down again. Killed the shore power and pulled the fuse panel out. The converter was visible as it is mounted near the shoe cubby. I unplugged it from the fuse panel and plugged my receptacle tester. Tested good. The fuses looked good but hard to reach. Looked like the type that light up when bad and neither was lit up. As a last step I disconnected the battery and plugged the converter into an extension cord I ran directly from the pedestal. No 12v output from the converter.

    At this point I'm pretty sure the converter is not working for whatever reason. Bring it in for warranty you say. Yeah but the dealer is 180 miles away with city traffic and tolls. The cost in terms of gas, tolls, vehicle wear and my time far exceed the $139.99 with free prime shipping for a new converter. If I had a list of additional issues it would be more worth it but like I said everything else checks out.

    The only difficulty is just accessing the converter, other than that it's a trivial swap. The panel in the back of the shoe cubby would seem to be the way to get sufficient access. I'm thinking I don't need to be concerned with damaging this panel during its removal as it's hidden and a good improvement would be to replace it with a screen to allow ventilation (overheating being one of the concerns by the manufacturer). I'll try contacting WFCO to see if I can warranty it directly with them. If not I'll just purchase and replace. If they don't warranty for me another upgrade might be to go with their bigger 75 amp converter.
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  2. #2
    Long Hauler
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    Going with a larger 75 amp converter may damage your battery. A 60 amp might be the max.
    I would also contact GD and let them know what is going on and they will likely have you send the old one to them and a copy of your receipt for the new one , they should reimburse you for the new one.

    Brian

  3. #3
    Paid my dues 😁 FT4NOW's Avatar
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    Might be worthwhile to call GD customer service and tell them your symptoms, troubleshooting you performed and your conclusion of a dead converter. Also mention your cost and time to get to a dealer. There is a good chance they will ship you a replacement.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    Going with a larger 75 amp converter may damage your battery. A 60 amp might be the max.
    I would also contact GD and let them know what is going on and they will likely have you send the old one to them and a copy of your receipt for the new one , they should reimburse you for the new one.

    Brian
    All converter/chargers have circuitry to level the charge voltage otherwise, even the 55 amp converter would be able to cook the battery. The converter will only push what the battery wants. The reason for going with 75 amp converter is because all the 12v loads if turned on, combined exceed the 55 amps from the converter and will start to draw down the battery (This is described in the manual). It's hard to exactly determine but even the 75 amp converter might not be able keep up with a full load but will reduce the battery draw down.

    The only draw back with the upgrade is that the 55 amp unit uses 940 watts (7.83 amps) of shore power and the 75 amp unit uses 1280 watts (10.66 amps) of shore power. This reduces the amount of the 50 amps of shore power available to other appliances by 2.83 amps. Of course the converter doesn't use 1280 watts continuous. It goes up and down with the 12v loads placed on it. So I suppose in a situation where the 12v loads are at max and I'm pushing too many 120v appliances I could pop the 50 amp shore breaker but that could happen with the stock converter as well.

    I'm going to take up the suggestion of calling Grand Design on this. If nothing else I'll look at it as a test of their willingness to make me happy.
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  5. #5
    King Pin
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebird View Post
    All converter/chargers have circuitry to level the charge voltage otherwise, even the 55 amp converter would be able to cook the battery. The converter will only push what the battery wants. The reason for going with 75 amp converter is because all the 12v loads if turned on, combined exceed the 55 amps from the converter and will start to draw down the battery (This is described in the manual). It's hard to exactly determine but even the 75 amp converter might not be able keep up with a full load but will reduce the battery draw down.

    The only draw back with the upgrade is that the 55 amp unit uses 940 watts (7.83 amps) of shore power and the 75 amp unit uses 1280 watts (10.66 amps) of shore power. This reduces the amount of the 50 amps of shore power available to other appliances by 2.83 amps. Of course the converter doesn't use 1280 watts continuous. It goes up and down with the 12v loads placed on it. So I suppose in a situation where the 12v loads are at max and I'm pushing too many 120v appliances I could pop the 50 amp shore breaker but that could happen with the stock converter as well.

    I'm going to take up the suggestion of calling Grand Design on this. If nothing else I'll look at it as a test of their willingness to make me happy.
    There is one other consideration, and that is wire sizing. In most of the GDRV units I've seen, they use 6 AWG wire between the converter and the batteries. This will handle a 55 amp charging current with 6 feet of cable and a 3% loss without over loading the wire. If the supply is bumped up to 75 amps, and the batteries are depleted enough to draw 75 amps, the wiring would have to be upgraded to 4 AWG.

    Jim

  6. #6
    Setting Up Camp
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucsonJim View Post
    There is one other consideration, and that is wire sizing. In most of the GDRV units I've seen, they use 6 AWG wire between the converter and the batteries. This will handle a 55 amp charging current with 6 feet of cable and a 3% loss without over loading the wire. If the supply is bumped up to 75 amps, and the batteries are depleted enough to draw 75 amps, the wiring would have to be upgraded to 4 AWG.

    Jim
    Charging a battery is about voltage and not current. To charge a battery you need to push more than 13.8 volts. The current is typically around 2 amps. This is the most desirable way to charge a battery and is handled by the circuitry in the converter. The 6ga wire from the battery to the fuse panel and from the converter to the fuse panel is for delivering 12v power to the panel and not to support charging. For charging a 14ga wire from the converter to the battery would do but they're not going to run a separate wire for that and just push it through the existing connection.

    Just think of a standard battery charger. I have a 50/10/2 amp Schumacher ES32074. The leads to the battery are only 14ga. The leads will get warm if I force the 50 amps to hot charge a battery (Not Good for it) but will automatically go to 2 amps if I leave it alone.
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  7. #7
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    @freebird

    Thanks for the explanation's, great details and useful info.

    Brian

  8. #8
    Setting Up Camp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Country Campers View Post
    @freebird

    Thanks for the explanation's, great details and useful info.

    Brian
    Another way to think of it is that the total output of the stock converter is 55 amps at 12v. If it was to deliver all that current at charging voltage to the battery two things would happen. The battery wouldn't last long at all and there would be nothing left to run any of the 12v loads.

    The converter adjusts the charge voltage down as the internal voltage of the battery increases until the battery reaches 12.6v and then the converter levels the charge voltage to match the battery. If you were to take a depleted battery and install it, your converter would not sacrifice everything in order to push all 55 amps to that battery. Your lights and other 12v loads would still work if on shore power.

    Going to a 75 amp converter just creates reserve power for the 12v loads on the fuse panel but does not increase charge rate.
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  9. #9
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    A couple of thoughts...

    The converter has a circuit breaker in the panel for battery charging. FYI.
    And did you check the charging voltage of the converter with it hooked to the battery? It might need a battery to complete the circuit. Even if the battery is dead it should still show some charge.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by el Rojo View Post
    A couple of thoughts...

    The converter has a circuit breaker in the panel for battery charging. FYI.
    And did you check the charging voltage of the converter with it hooked to the battery? It might need a battery to complete the circuit. Even if the battery is dead it should still show some charge.
    The circuit breaker on the panel labelled converter is for the 120v power going to the converter. If you trip that breaker the converter is shutdown and there's NO 12v output from the converter. Of course if you have a good battery your 12v loads will still work.

    Yes while it was depleted. That was my first clue.
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

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