Is a 48 Volt RV In Your Future?

[RV2600RB]

The case with the Garbage trucks also being used as Snow Plows is an extreme, double duty, use case. The Garbage trucks were probably built by Mack Trucks, one of the largest suppliers of Garbage trucks in the US. Mack's Garbage trucks advertise only 100 miles range. Many of the big truck manufacturers who have an electric version of their heavy duty class 6, 7, and 8 vehicles have only 150 to 250 miles range. In contrast, Tesla's Semi has more than twice the range at 500 miles.

The other problem with NYC's Electric Snow Plows, note: the article did not mention any problems with the Garbage trucks being used as Garbage trucks, so presumably, they performed well as Garbage trucks, was probably that they did not charge up very fast. Chances are that the Garbage trucks only had the capability to charge up from Level 2 AC chargers as opposed to Level 3 DC Fast chargers and/or the charging rate was too slow to allow the Snow Plows to re-charge multiple times during a 12 hour shift. By contrast, Tesla's Semi can be charged from 10% to 70% in about 30 minutes using their "Mega" Charger.

Tesla has proven that they can design and build an Electric Semi that has 500 mile range, if the Garbage truck chassis had been a Tesla with 500 miles range and "Mega" charging capability, perhaps the results for NYC would have been different. Even if the Garbage trucks they used had been equipped with "Mega" charging capability, the results might have been different for NYC.

Regarding Hertz's sell off of their Tesla and other EVs in their fleet...

The number one reason cited by people who are interested in buying an Electric Car for not actually buying an EV is $price$. Now Hertz is selling off part of their EV fleet because the price for new EVs has dropped and the residual/salvage value of their existing EV fleet has dropped and they can't sell off their used EVs for as much as they expected to. I am not sure how this is bad news for EVs, EV prices have dropped because Tesla has been able to sell their cars for less while still making a profit selling them in record numbers. When in history has it ever been a bad thing to buy something this year, for less than you could buy it last year?

Personally, I have never complained about buying every successive computer, or big screen TV, for less each time I decide to upgrade. I have no problems with Tesla reducing their prices and forcing other manufacturers to follow suit.

It is unfortunate that Hertz miscalculated the residual value of their EV fleet. I have news for them, the value of their remaining gas fleet has dropped off the cliff this year as well, because, people are no longer buying used cars at their previously inflated rates. New car dealers are no longer able to get $10,000 or $20,000 "Market Adjustments" for their New cars. As a matter of fact, rebates and incentives are starting to appear for new cars and trucks. And there is even a new concept being tested by many auto dealers: "Below MSRP Pricing"!!! What a concept!!!

Is that 500mi semi range pulling 80,000lbs of cargo? I doubt it. Ford already discovered that with the electric F150. No useful towing range.
Nothing will convince me to go solar house or EV at this time in their development.
Rich

[Hoopy Frood]

Just curious if there is actual third party verification of the 500 mile range loaded to 80,000 lbs.? Musk has been know to be a bit optimistic in his prognostications.

[RV2600RB]

I agree that Hertz does not have to sell them, however, they have developed a formula for their fleet that says you sell the vehicles at xx,000 miles to maximize your residual market value. If Hertz simply added 10,000 miles to the xx,000 miles, they would make more money on their EVs than they are loosing with the residual price drop. However, Hertz has not figured out that EVs could run longer in their fleet than ICE cars because they have all this history with ICE cars that shows increased maintenance costs above xx,000 miles.

I disagree. If a gas vehicle is properly maintained from day one it will have a very long lifespan with no major repairs.
The reason rental places sell their gas fleet around 30,000mi is resale value.
Rental vehicles whether gas or electric get run into the ground by renters.
Due to this, both will require more maintenance and repairs the older they get from getting beat up by renters.
Hence the reason for selling around a certain mileage. Theoretically, the “damage” to the vehicle should be minimal at that time, resulting in better value.
Rich

[ajg617]

I find it most interesting that Hertz is not celebrating the fact that they can now purchase the next crop of EVs at reduced prices. Where is that news story? "Hertz makes a crap ton more money from their EV fleet due to significantly lower pricing from Tesla and other EV manufacturers". Yea, we might be waiting for a while for that news story to appear.

Maybe people just don't want to rent them? I know I wouldn't. If I fly into Denver for a drive to C Springs (and yes that was a usual two day business trip) or a day meeting in DC, the last thing I'd want to worry about is do I have enough battery rushing back to the airport and do I have to re-charge it before I return it let alone getting into a vehicle I know zippo about. I know where the gas stations are near DIA and DCA and how long it would take me to fill up. No time to wait for a battery to charge if I can even find a charger. And if I don't return a Tesla with the same charge level as pick-up, it's a $35 fee tacked on by Hertz.

Read the Hertz EV rental terms - why would I even bother? https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/reser...TESLA&EOAG=LAX

Or maybe Hertz had to sign a maintenance NDA with Tesla like some RV manufacturers require if the factory is going to repair the RV.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Is that 500mi semi range pulling 80,000lbs of cargo? I doubt it. Ford already discovered that with the electric F150. No useful towing range.
Nothing will convince me to go solar house or EV at this time in their development.
Rich

Just curious if there is actual third party verification of the 500 mile range loaded to 80,000 lbs.? Musk has been know to be a bit optimistic in his prognostications.

Yes, that 500 mile range is with a fully loaded truck (up to 82,000 lbs for an Electric Semi).

As a matter of fact, the range was recently verified by an independent, third party, organization called: The North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE). NACFE performs a biannual test with multiple companies that have Electric Heavy Duty trucks (Class 6, 7, and 8) participating. NACFE documents how these trucks are used and how well they perform. Last year (2023) was the first year that the Tesla Semi was included in the testing, thanks to PepsiCo participating in the event.

NACFE produced a few videos highlighting several Electric trucks and how well they performed. I recommend checking them out.

A couple of facts that came out of the testing was: one of the Tesla Semis drove almost 1,200 miles in a 24 hour period using two drivers. Another fact came out that at least one of the PepsiCo Tesla Semis were loaded to an average of 72,000 lbs during the test.

If you are interested, the data from the testing is available on the NACFE website. The testing was performed over 3 or 4 days last Fall and all the information on each truck is available, this includes: how often and for how long each truck was charged.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Is that 500mi semi range pulling 80,000lbs of cargo? I doubt it. Ford already discovered that with the electric F150. No useful towing range.
Nothing will convince me to go solar house or EV at this time in their development.
Rich

I disagree. If a gas vehicle is properly maintained from day one it will have a very long lifespan with no major repairs.
The reason rental places sell their gas fleet around 30,000mi is resale value.
Rental vehicles whether gas or electric get run into the ground by renters.
Due to this, both will require more maintenance and repairs the older they get from getting beat up by renters.
Hence the reason for selling around a certain mileage. Theoretically, the “damage” to the vehicle should be minimal at that time, resulting in better value.
Rich

Yes, that is exactly what I said, Hertz sells their cars at a pre determined mileage based on their experience with gas cars. Electric Vehicles might prove to be reliable for an extra 10,000 miles even though renters are hard on them, consequently, Hertz would make more money by keeping the EVs in the rental fleet then they might loose in resale value.

Evs might even sell for a higher residual price because they would have the remainder of the 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and/or drivetrain. Most gas cars Hertz sells have probably exceeded the manufacturers mileage warranty so EVs have a big advantage there.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

I read some articles a few years ago that Bolt owners were just scrapping their cars because replacing the batteries cost more than the car was worth.

I'm guessing these fake articles were on an anti-EV website.
No owner of any Bolt EV has ever had to pay a dime for a new battery. Me included.
Chevy paid for the battery and all labor to replace them. My local Chevy dealership even gave me a free rental car for the entire week they had my Bolt. Chevy could not have done a better job taking care of Bolt owners during that recall.

[RV2600RB]

Maybe people just don't want to rent them? I know I wouldn't. If I fly into Denver for a drive to C Springs (and yes that was a usual two day business trip) or a day meeting in DC, the last thing I'd want to worry about is do I have enough battery rushing back to the airport and do I have to re-charge it before I return it let alone getting into a vehicle I know zippo about. I know where the gas stations are near DIA and DCA and how long it would take me to fill up. No time to wait for a battery to charge if I can even find a charger. And if I don't return a Tesla with the same charge level as pick-up, it's a $35 fee tacked on by Hertz.

Read the Hertz EV rental terms - why would I even bother? https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/reser...TESLA&EOAG=LAX

Or maybe Hertz had to sign a maintenance NDA with Tesla like some RV manufacturers require if the factory is going to repair the RV.

Yes, that 500 mile range is with a fully loaded truck (up to 82,000 lbs for an Electric Semi).

As a matter of fact, the range was recently verified by an independent, third party, organization called: The North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE). NACFE performs a biannual test with multiple companies that have Electric Heavy Duty trucks (Class 6, 7, and 8) participating. NACFE documents how these trucks are used and how well they perform. Last year (2023) was the first year that the Tesla Semi was included in the testing, thanks to PepsiCo participating in the event.

NACFE produced a few videos highlighting several Electric trucks and how well they performed. I recommend checking them out.

A couple of facts that came out of the testing was: one of the Tesla Semis drove almost 1,200 miles in a 24 hour period using two drivers. Another fact came out that at least one of the PepsiCo Tesla Semis were loaded to an average of 72,000 lbs during the test.

If you are interested, the data from the testing is available on the NACFE website. The testing was performed over 3 or 4 days last Fall and all the information on each truck is available, this includes: how often and for how long each truck was charged.

That is for the combined weight. Not cargo weight. Big difference. A fully loaded tractor trailer combined weight will typically be about 100,000lbs. That 20,000lb difference would result in a significant reduction in range.
Plus the truck would need a charging station at its destination (not likely). Or would have to return to the point of origin to fast charge, which would cut the range in half.
Also, Pepsi’s runs were mostly 75-100mi. Only a couple 450mi runs, likely from plant to plant where a fast charging station was waiting. Details left out. 🙄
Rich

[SolarPoweredRV]

That is for the combined weight. Not cargo weight. Big difference. A fully loaded tractor trailer combined weight will typically be about 100,000lbs. That 20,000lb difference would result in a significant reduction in range.
Plus the truck would need a charging station at its destination (not likely). Or would have to return to the point of origin to fast charge, which would cut the range in half.
Also, Pepsi’s runs were mostly 75-100mi. Only a couple 450mi runs, likely from plant to plant where a fast charging station was waiting. Details left out. 🙄
Rich

In the US (and maybe Canada and Mexico, because trucks can cross both borders) commercial trucks are limited to 80,000 lbs total weight, Tractor, Trailer and Freight. Electric trucks are granted an extra 2,000 lbs to accommodate the added weight of the batteries. An empty Tractor and Trailer weighs around 32,000 lbs with a day cab being lighter and a Tractor with a sleeper being heavier. Most "Dry Van" loads are listed on Broker's websites at 45,000 lbs or less. The best information I have on the weight of the Tesla Semi is that there is a "Slight weight penalty" for the Tesla Semi. I take that to mean that he Tesla Semi is around 3,000 lbs heavier than a Diesel truck, deducting the 2,000 lbs allowed by the regulations, I presume the Tesla Semi has about a 1,000 lb load penalty. Not a big deal since most loads are under the maximum weight.

Pepsi has produced a few videos, one went into great detail about their charging setup, about how they are using their Electric fleet and how well it is working for them. In addition to the Tesla Semis, PepsiCo has a fleet of box trucks and vans that are Electric. The Tesla Semis are used for both the Frito Lay and Pepsi divisions. The Tesla Semis are used on both local delivery routes and "long haul" routes.

In the US, 80% of the Freight loads are 500 miles or less. Centralized distribution is ideal for Electric trucking with the truck returning to the distribution center at night, or in PepsiCo's case, between shifts.

When it comes to "Over-the-Road" trucking, "Mega" chargers will need to be installed along the highways to allow trucks to travel on the multi day trips it takes to get cross country. In typical Tesla fashion, Tesla has announced that it will be installing 9 "Mega" charging stations between the Mexican border and Fremont California. Obviously, Tesla is planning to ship a lot of parts out of Mexico to their factories in Austin TX and Fremont CA. Additionally, a non-Tesla charging network has been announced for Electric Semis between Los Angeles CA and Texas to accommodate truck traffic out of the Ports of Los Angeles.

When it comes to fleets electrifying, spreadsheets will make the decision. If the company can save money on both maintenance and fuel, the company will electrify their fleet. Jay Leno filmed an episode of his "Jay Leno's Garage" show with the Tesla Semi, during Jay's conversation with one of the Tesla Excutives (I believe it was Franz who said it), they mentioned that the Tesla Semi saves a company $250,000 in operating costs over a two year period. Any fleet operator would be foolish not to electrify with those kind of savings available.

[huntindog]

I agree that Hertz does not have to sell them, however, they have developed a formula for their fleet that says you sell the vehicles at xx,000 miles to maximize your residual market value. If Hertz simply added 10,000 miles to the xx,000 miles, they would make more money on their EVs than they are loosing with the residual price drop. However, Hertz has not figured out that EVs could run longer in their fleet than ICE cars because they have all this history with ICE cars that shows increased maintenance costs above xx,000 miles.

I actually checked the Hertz website the day the EV sale was announced. They had a variety of models, and a range of milages as well. One could get an EV with around 10K on the clock , though they were the highest priced, which should be expected. I do not think that milage alone was a factor in selling them. I am sure that by now the most desireable ones have been sold....Which could mean that the ones they have left will be reduced in price