Poll: How many of you have had your grease seals fail?

[Gold Country Livin']

Yeah...... I need a beer!

Let's start a poll: "Who needs a beer"? Then we can all meet in Tuscon where T. Jim will have a GD brake rally and he can learn how to do disk brake conversions. That's what I'm talking bout!

[jim1521]

I just received this reply from Emily:

Good evening Jim

Thank you for sending this over to me for review. We are very sorry you are having these issues. I see you did reach out below to Bill, and you stated you reached out to Grand Design as well. LCI and Grand Design do not typically warranty or reimburse concerns for 2nd owners. However in this situation. As a goodwill gesture, Lippert will reimburse you the out of pocket expense that you incurred in regard to this concern. $1218.54 will be sent to you in a check form. We will need your address so that we can get that out to you asap.

Again, we are very sorry you are dealing with this, and if you have any further questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to reach out. Your case # for this concern is 1630377.


Thank you,

Emily Stahley

Customer Relations

w: 574-537-8900 | f: 574-534-7161

My sincere thanks to Lippert and Emily! That's customer support!

And thanks to all you guys here on the forum - special call out to Steve Gravelle and TusconJim for recommending Emily. I can't thank you all enough.

And GDRV - well, you can kiss my grits! Take a page from Lippert if you really want to learn about Customer Service. I wrote the email to Emily at 5:37 pm ET, and received a reply - WITH RESOLUTION - in 40 minutes.

Jim

[BabyBober]

I am playing devils advocate here just a bit. This is Lippert's problem (always has beed) and your purchasing dealer's problem not GD's. Yes there is a GD label on your unit. Unlike your Nisson truck, GD (and most all the other RV manufacturers) CLEARLY layout in their manuals and warranties their coverage period and the warranty that they cover along with a list of manufacturers of the items they put in their units, how to contact them and what warranties the products have from those manufactureres. They make NO claims for those third product items and do not hide that they are really just an assembler of the camper. Auto dealers actually do the same with things like tires. This is why you have a separate tire warranty statement in your glove box from Nisson. Those tires are covered by good year, Michelin, etc, not nisson. I 100% guarantee you ford, nisson, toyota, etc are not paying for the takata airbag recalls just because they are in their brand car. That only happened because the government forced a safety recall and forced takata to pay to have the repairs done. When I bought my unit new I had the dealer pull the hubs and have them checked that had to be covered by Lippert not GD. Now, this was a used unit, correct? I bet you purchased it because it was "less cost" then a new unit with warranty. Why didn't you take this back to the dealer you bought it from? They should have been responsible for selling you a used unit with faulty brakes. That should have been properly checked at your dealer before the sale. Was it? Any decent dealer selling a used unit should have pulled and repacked the bearings before sale. Did they? If they didn't you were taken. If they did then they over packed them and it still is their issue. Sorry...

You blame GD. You bought a 2016 unit used in August of 2017. That unit was built somewhere from April 1 2015-March 31 2016 ish. GD has a 1 year warranty (known Lippert issue or not). You are upset with GD while being the second owner on a product that is easily 2 years plus old and long out of warranty. Don't make GD the bad guy. Go back to Lippert and Palm Beach RV. There is no safety recall (blame our government there) on this so there is nothing that "makes" lippert notify anyone. Yes there are 94 pages on this forum about this and probably 85 pages of that were written BEFORE you bought a used unit. Let the buyer beware.... Did you read any of the thread before you bought your used unit? Did you make the selling dealer pull your hubs and check things before you accepted delivery? Maybe good customer service does come into play here and maybe GD should help you out in some way BUT they do not need to NOR should you expect them to. When you buy a used product you are knowingly purchasing something that may or may not have any warranty and I am guessing it didn't have any factory warranty left on it when you bought it in August.

Of course YMMV. Don't expect something for nothing...

Jim
(a happy GD owner)

[TucsonJim]

Great news Jim.

[jim1521]

I am playing devils advocate here just a bit. This is Lippert's problem (always has beed) and your purchasing dealer's problem not GD's. Yes there is a GD label on your unit. Unlike your Nisson truck, GD (and most all the other RV manufacturers) CLEARLY layout in their manuals and warranties their coverage period and the warranty that they cover along with a list of manufacturers of the items they put in their units, how to contact them and what warranties the products have from those manufactureres. They make NO claims for those third product items and do not hide that they are really just an assembler of the camper. Auto dealers actually do the same with things like tires. This is why you have a separate tire warranty statement in your glove box from Nisson. Those tires are covered by good year, Michelin, etc, not nisson. I 100% guarantee you ford, nisson, toyota, etc are not paying for the takata airbag recalls just because they are in their brand car. That only happened because the government forced a safety recall and forced takata to pay to have the repairs done. When I bought my unit new I had the dealer pull the hubs and have them checked that had to be covered by Lippert not GD. Now, this was a used unit, correct? I bet you purchased it because it was "less cost" then a new unit with warranty. Why didn't you take this back to the dealer you bought it from? They should have been responsible for selling you a used unit with faulty brakes. That should have been properly checked at your dealer before the sale. Was it? Any decent dealer selling a used unit should have pulled and repacked the bearings before sale. Did they? If they didn't you were taken. If they did then they over packed them and it still is their issue. Sorry...

You blame GD. You bought a 2016 unit used in August of 2017. That unit was built somewhere from April 1 2015-March 31 2016 ish. GD has a 1 year warranty (known Lippert issue or not). You are upset with GD while being the second owner on a product that is easily 2 years plus old and long out of warranty. Don't make GD the bad guy. Go back to Lippert and Palm Beach RV. There is no safety recall (blame our government there) on this so there is nothing that "makes" lippert notify anyone. Yes there are 94 pages on this forum about this and probably 85 pages of that were written BEFORE you bought a used unit. Let the buyer beware.... Did you read any of the thread before you bought your used unit? Did you make the selling dealer pull your hubs and check things before you accepted delivery? Maybe good customer service does come into play here and maybe GD should help you out in some way BUT they do not need to NOR should you expect them to. When you buy a used product you are knowingly purchasing something that may or may not have any warranty and I am guessing it didn't have any factory warranty left on it when you bought it in August.

Of course YMMV. Don't expect something for nothing...

Jim
(a happy GD owner)

So I guess you'll be OK with the possibility of your brake seals failing after 2 years, causing you to be in a dangerous condition? You knew about this problem when you purchased your trailer; that's why you had the dealer pull the hubs. What about the person (like me) who wasn't aware of this issue - OR THIS FORUM - when he/she bought a brand new trailer? Would that make it any safer? We're not talking about the front burner of the stove not working, or the left speaker of the stereo going bad. We're talking about something that can have a catastrophic result on the road. New or used doesn't matter: we're talking about 2 years, not 10 years. GDRV knew about this issue and didn't reach out to their dealers to have them check for this. You can't deflect this: THIS IS ON GDRV.

I'm done "venting my spleen" on this. LCI did what GDRV "should" have done. They made it right. LCI sold a couple of axles; GDRV sold an entire trailer. LCI recognized a bad situation and made it right. GDRV told me to "bite harder on the pillow". BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY BOOK!

[JCZhome]

Jim.........Jim1521.....I bought used from a private party. It was still under warranty but not when I had the brakes replaced and found the leaking seals (and the brake shoe lining missing). I contacted Lippert directly because I'd seen on FB that somebody else had got reimbursed after the factory warranty was expired. My issue was discovered at the time I was getting the disc brakes installed (you've probably saw my posts but in case you haven't.... https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...l=1#post130152 ).

I paid $3,350 for the disc brakes, installed. It was about two months later that I'd read about somebody being reimbursed from Lippert, for brakes, after the factory warranty expired. I thought what the heck, all they can do is say "no". I sent in the photos of the drums (showing the seals had failed) and the photos of the brake shoe that was missing the lining. Mr. Garth Collins replied to my initial email within an hour or two, asking for my VIN number and a copy of my receipt from Performance Trailer Braking (the disc brake job). I sent that info back to him in short order. He replied back a couple days later saying
"Good morning J.C.,
I am going to authorize the $3350.00 for the work to this unit. I will have this sent out."

Garth Collins at LPI (Lippert) is: Contact Center Technical Rep, Warranty
w: 574.537.8900 F:574.534.7161 LCI- Customer Service <[email protected]>

Take your photos, VIN number and email him asking for reimbursement of a brake replacement. If they ask you to get the brakes done first and send them the receipt then just tell them you are getting disc brakes. They have responded to everybody relatively fast. They know it's a big issue and they don't want NHTSA getting involved.

Please know that everybody else that's been reimbursed (even those that discovered the leaking seals when they were getting disc brakes) were only reimbursed the cost of what new Lippert drum brakes, seals, backing plates and install labor would have been. I believe the only reason that I was reimbursed the full amount of the disc brakes is because of the missing brake shoe lining....but can't say with certainty. But if you can get reimbursed that much, that would certainly help offset the cost of disc brakes.

The disc brakes are a huge difference. I'd seen that on FB many times and was expecting a big difference but I sure wasn't expecting anything close to what the actual experience was/is. It used to feel like my trailer was "pushing" my truck at stops. Now it feels like the trailer is stopping the truck....a very comfortable and secure feeling. Performance Trailer Braking is who just about everybody has had their brakes done by. They travel all over the country doing brakes but they're out of Norman, Oklahoma. Give them a call.

[JCZhome]

I just received this reply from Emily:

Good evening Jim

Thank you for sending this over to me for review. We are very sorry you are having these issues. I see you did reach out below to Bill, and you stated you reached out to Grand Design as well. LCI and Grand Design do not typically warranty or reimburse concerns for 2nd owners. However in this situation. As a goodwill gesture, Lippert will reimburse you the out of pocket expense that you incurred in regard to this concern. $1218.54 will be sent to you in a check form. We will need your address so that we can get that out to you asap.

Again, we are very sorry you are dealing with this, and if you have any further questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to reach out. Your case # for this concern is 1630377.


Thank you,

Emily Stahley

Customer Relations

w: 574-537-8900 | f: 574-534-7161

My sincere thanks to Lippert and Emily! That's customer support!

And thanks to all you guys here on the forum - special call out to Steve Gravelle and TusconJim for recommending Emily. I can't thank you all enough.

And GDRV - well, you can kiss my grits! Take a page from Lippert if you really want to learn about Customer Service. I wrote the email to Emily at 5:37 pm ET, and received a reply - WITH RESOLUTION - in 40 minutes.

Jim

Somehow, I missed this post. Looking at the time stamp, you may have posted while I was typing and gathering the links, etc. They told me as soon as I retire I can move as slow as I want and so I'm taking advantage of that. LOL

Anyway, happy to see that you got some relief from Lippert. It is a Lippert issue, not GD or the dealership.....it's a known issue that Lippert has set precedent with acknowledging, accepting and paying out on. Your situation is no different than mine.....we both bought "used" and I bought from a private party. I was out of warranty when I submitted and that issue wasn't even raised. The good thing is you collected and can move on to better brakes. By the way, the disc brakes are approx. $1,100 per axle. My rig is triple axle, thus $3350.

[Jims94vmx]

I voted no, but mine were the new Dexter axles. Just changed to disc brakes and all had the thick red grease. So the transition seems to have fixed the problem.

[Luv2Ski]

Jim1521,

You certainly had the classic grease seal failure. Since you purchased it from a GD dealer, they have absolutely no excuse for failing to fix the problem before offering it for sale. I'm pretty sure there's a tech bulletin out on grease seal failure and GD through LCI would have authorized repairs done by this dealer on their dime. If you want a guilty party to direct most of your fire on, in my opinion, there's your primary.

From the beginning, GD has been sending customers over to Emily at Lippert (LCI) to get these fixed and paid for. That's what this Mike guy should have done for you because brake failures are the exception to the rule on post-warranty work for exactly the reasons you stated. GD opens a support case, tosses it to LCI who overnights parts to the repair facility and LCI authorizes and pays for the labor. Sounds like Mike needs some retraining. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come given the change of ownership.

I've gone through this process twice as a first owner. My CSR was named Joe. I was in warranty for the grease seal failure and out of warranty for a snapped leaf spring. In both cases, GD got LCI involved and followed up to make sure I was happy. In the case of the leaf spring (out-of-warranty) they had LCI overnight it to their dealer in Cheyenne, WY and pay for the crew to travel 180 miles R/T to install it at the rest area where we were stranded. That's the way GD builds its brand loyalty. As for the grease seal failures (in warranty), I ripped out the drum assemblies and replaced them with electric over hydraulic disc brakes that I installed myself. LCI compensated me with a check equivalent to the retail pricing of four manually adjustable brake assemblies (including seals) @ $99.88 each. They did not comp labor since I did it myself.

My guess is that if Mike at GD had recognized this as the exception to the out-of-warranty rule, he would have opened a case for you and LCI would have overnighted parts to the shop and authorized labor to repair it. That's the route most have gone with success. It's worth noting that GD has quit using LCI axles and brakes after this fiasco. From the outset, GD used LCI components for the frame, suspension and axles. The owners had previous bad experience mixing components because there would be a lot of finger pointing when issues came up and they wanted to work with a single supplier to get it fixed. They put this in their marketing as a differentiator. Turns out, there's a downside to that approach too. LCI was, in my opinion, slow to diagnose and respond to this dangerous safety issue which wasn't just limited to GD by the way. Once they did, it took them painfully longer to get their assembly process changed and retooled. The fix LCI came up with appears to have worked, but I suspect that it was too little, too late as far as GD was concerned. Hence the use of Dexter axle assemblies on the new production units. I credit LCI for taking ownership of the problem and doing their best to keep their indirect customers happy.

From your sig line, I see you served. Thanks to you and to your family who likely also served in their own way.

[RobertS377]

Well you can add us to the list....took our 2017 303rls in last Monday for routine brake service (we have 9000 miles on it) plus some other warranty repairs.

The dealer called me yesterday and said all 4 had grease failure. They were waiting for authorization to pay for it under warranty. He expected them to cover it but said I would still be responsible for the normal brake service maintence (adjusting/re-packing, etc). Don't know if anyone here can address that.

The thing that surprised me if it helps others is that I really felt little difference in stopping power. My F350 has exhaust braking which might be the reason. I love that feature. I saw almost no grease anywhere and I check regularly. There was a very small amount on the outside of the wheels, but not enough to make me think it was that bad. Now I know better.

I may just have them convert it to disc brakes...