User Tag List

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Rolling Along carnolddsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Quartzsite until April
    Posts
    577
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Solar Installation on Momentum 397TH

    Overview of our installation:


    • Major components purchased from AM Solar in Oregon
    • 640 watts of solar panels using 4, 160 watt panels
    • Lithium batteries, 600 amps total, 3 200 amp Victron LiFePO4 batteries
    • Inverter - Victron Energy 12/3000/120 - 12 volt input, 3000 VA (2400 watts), 120 amp charger
    • 120 volt circuits powered by solar/batteries operate from shore power or the generator when available


    The biggest challenge faced with this installation was battery and inverter location. Typically the batteries would be installed in front compartment where the existing battery is located. For us that was not a practical option as pin weight before the solar installation was about 4,000 pounds. Toy haulers tend to be nose heavy without heavier toys like ATVs or motorcycles in the garage. Bicycles are much lighter. Adding another 500 pounds to the front of the rig didn't seem like a good idea given we were already close to the GVWR of our dually tow vehicle. As an aside I find it interesting that front axle maximum weight rating plus the rear axle maximum weight rating exceeds GVWR.

    With the pin weight in mind it was decided to install the batteries, charge controller and inverter in the garage. Marilyn was fine with the garage installation with one
    requirement, the installation had to look like it belonged. A bunch of wires and batteries for everyone to see was not acceptable.

    To meet Marilyn's requirement a box or framework was built to hold the major components and covered with the black embossed aluminum diamond plate like GD uses as wainscotting in the Momentum garages.

    A photo of the completed box:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Battery Box Completed.jpg 
Views:	248 
Size:	96.1 KB 
ID:	5752

    The framework from the box was built primarily from 1inch square tubing re-purposed from a storage rack. Re-purposing the rack was a way to get rid of some stuff as we prepared for full time. The three batteries are stored vertically, in the front of the framework with the inverter, charge controller and other stuff in the back half of the box.

    Almost completed framework:



    Solar panel installation was easy and straight forward once I got over the initial fear of putting a hold in the roof for the panel mounts.

    Panel wiring: panels are wired to a combiner box on the roof using 10/2 UV round wire from AM Solar. After lots of research decided the best overall option was to wire the panels in parallel. Yes, higher voltages with series wiring has advantages. On the other hand with series wired panels a shaded panel impairs the entire string. The wiring from the combiner box to the charge controller is 4/2 wire again from AM Solar.

    Considered two different options for running the wire down from the roof, a sewer vent pipe or a hole through the roof and down a wall cavity. While the sewer vent pipe option seemed like a reasonable idea, it just doesn't feel right. I know, an emotional decision that I can't logically explain. On the other hand drilling a hole in the roof and hoping I hit the wall cavity was scary. In the end I went with the hole in the roof into a wall cavity.

    The 397TH has a second bath at the front of the garage and gaining access to a wall cavity is fairly easy, remove a panel below the sink. The bad news is it is a long way to the roof with no practical way of drilling from the bottom up. The hole has to start from the roof and drill down. From the roof using the vent pipe as locator making the hole was a two step operation. First drill through the roof and the ceiling with a long 1/8 inch drill bit, run inside and look for unwanted holes. Always easier to hide/patch/coverup a small hole. Once I was sure the initial hole was in the correct location a 1 inch hole was made using a hole saw. The 4/2 wire was then pulled to the roof using an electricians fish tape.

    The 4/2 wire pulled up from the rear bathroom

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Wiring through Roof.jpg 
Views:	206 
Size:	105.0 KB 
ID:	5748

    Panels and combiner box

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Installed Panels.jpg 
Views:	218 
Size:	94.6 KB 
ID:	5749

    The 120 volt challenge or opportunity:

    The Victron inverter when shore or generator power is available can pass through up to 50 amps. Unfortunately this is a single 50 amp leg, unlike the double 50 amp legs to the coach. If the inverter could handle two 50amp legs the wiring would have been fairly simple, place the inverter between the transfer switch and the electrical panel.

    This involved:
    • Re-purposing the breaker slot and replacing the breaker for the original converter which would no longer be need.
    • Running 6/2 with ground from the existing panel to the inverter
    • Adding a new sub panel in the basement storage area
    • Running a 6/2 with ground from the inverter to the new sub panel
    • Moving the 120 volt circuits to be available when running on solar/batteries from the original panel to the sub panel


    New sub panel in basement storage area

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sub panel.jpg 
Views:	198 
Size:	85.7 KB 
ID:	5750

    The 12 volt challenge

    With the batteries now towards the rear of the coach and the 12 volt connections in the front compartment this meant an almost 35 foot positive wire. What size of wire is needed? What is the current draw? When the slides or jacks are running about 50 amps. How much does the generator need to for starting? Lots of searching, looks like 50 - 100 amps, with no definitive answer. Assuming 100amps and a 3% loss went with 2/0 cable.

    Running the Heavy Cables

    Running the two 6/2 with ground and the 2/0 cable from the rear to the front of the coach wasn't technically hard, just time consuming. Drop a portion of the underbelly pull the cables through, tie the cables up, refasten the underbelling and repeat until done. The only gotcha on this part of the project was having to remove the wheels from a triple axle trailer.

    As I've ran out of time today, I will post more pictures and details later.

    Completed install with battery monitor and controls

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	complete.jpg 
Views:	190 
Size:	90.1 KB 
ID:	5751
    Colan and Marilyn Arnold
    Des Moines, IA - kind of, on the road full time.
    Currently in Durango, Colorado
    Momentum 350M originally, now a 397TH

  2. #2
    Long Hauler Paul & Deb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    2,959
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Awesome work! I wish your pictures were straight but a quick trip to the chiropractor will take care of my neck

    I'd love to see the box open if possible.

    I think I could buy another trailer for the money you'll have in your solar system though! Wow!!

    That's how it's done right there!
    Paul "Poppy" and Deb Cervone
    2022 Imagine XLS 22MLE
    2021 Imagine XLS 17MKE - SOLD ; 2015 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS - SOLD
    2016 GMC Denali 3500HD SRW Duramax/Allison CC 4x4; Tire Minder TPMS

  3. #3
    Seasoned Camper kregli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Roundup, MT
    Posts
    302
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nice job! I'll be interested to hear how the Lithium batteries work out after some time. I'm hoping the price on them comes down in a few years when I have to replace the 4xL16's that I have.
    Keith Regli
    2016 Momentum 388m
    2015 Silverado 3500HD DRW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    Rolling Along kevinpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Spokane Valley, WA
    Posts
    932
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Paul,
    I use Firefox browser and loaded an add-on today that when you right click on the image it lets you flip or rotate the image. I really like it

    Regards,
    Kevin
    PS:Colan, excellent write up and job!
    2015 Ram Laramie 3500 4x4 LB Dually Crew Cab
    6.7L I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine 5th wheel Prep
    68RFE Transmission Auto Level Rear Air Suspension 3.73 gears


  5. #5
    Seasoned Camper Luv2Ski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Rocky Mountain West
    Posts
    408
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Colan,

    Very neat setup. Any chance you made up a schematic and would share? I'm looking to do something very similar in our Momentum with the same MultiPlus unit you are using. I'm curious what you did with the 12v coming from the tow vehicle, what solar controller(s) you chose, what DC breakers you chose for the sub panel, etc.

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Steve and Cheryl

    2017 Momentum 328M w/Dual Pane Windows and 3rd A/C. Aftermarket mods: Titan EOH Disc Brakes, MORryde IS suspension and Reese 5th Airborne Sidewinder pin box
    2014 Ram 3500 Longhorn Megacab 4x4 DRW with 6.7 HD Cummins Turbo Diesel, AISIN trans, 3.73 axles and a Reese 20K puck mount hitch
    Call sign: AAØSB, Class: Extra



  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry to necro this post, found this forum while searching for solar install for my rig. Had two questions: first, do you still have room for a Rzr with the batteries in the garage? Second, did you install the Victron battery monitor? Thank you for posting pics and descriptions of your install.

  7. #7
    Long Hauler DaveMatthewsBand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,794
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Nice setup!

    If I could offer any advice it would be to install more panels, to keep those batteries topped off, if you’re a heavy electric user.

    We have about twice as many total watts in panels and in the Winter it takes all day to keep our 400ah of lithium topped off. But we use a lot of power and are full time.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Resistance is Not Futile, It's Voltage Divided by Current.


  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    where ever my trailer is parked
    Posts
    259
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by carnolddsm View Post
    Overview of our installation:


    • Major components purchased from AM Solar in Oregon
    • 640 watts of solar panels using 4, 160 watt panels
    • Lithium batteries, 600 amps total, 3 200 amp Victron LiFePO4 batteries
    • Inverter - Victron Energy 12/3000/120 - 12 volt input, 3000 VA (2400 watts), 120 amp charger
    • 120 volt circuits powered by solar/batteries operate from shore power or the generator when available


    The biggest challenge faced with this installation was battery and inverter location. Typically the batteries would be installed in front compartment where the existing battery is located. For us that was not a practical option as pin weight before the solar installation was about 4,000 pounds. Toy haulers tend to be nose heavy without heavier toys like ATVs or motorcycles in the garage. Bicycles are much lighter. Adding another 500 pounds to the front of the rig didn't seem like a good idea given we were already close to the GVWR of our dually tow vehicle. As an aside I find it interesting that front axle maximum weight rating plus the rear axle maximum weight rating exceeds GVWR.

    With the pin weight in mind it was decided to install the batteries, charge controller and inverter in the garage. Marilyn was fine with the garage installation with one
    requirement, the installation had to look like it belonged. A bunch of wires and batteries for everyone to see was not acceptable.

    To meet Marilyn's requirement a box or framework was built to hold the major components and covered with the black embossed aluminum diamond plate like GD uses as wainscotting in the Momentum garages.

    A photo of the completed box:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Battery Box Completed.jpg 
Views:	248 
Size:	96.1 KB 
ID:	5752

    The framework from the box was built primarily from 1inch square tubing re-purposed from a storage rack. Re-purposing the rack was a way to get rid of some stuff as we prepared for full time. The three batteries are stored vertically, in the front of the framework with the inverter, charge controller and other stuff in the back half of the box.

    Almost completed framework:



    Solar panel installation was easy and straight forward once I got over the initial fear of putting a hold in the roof for the panel mounts.

    Panel wiring: panels are wired to a combiner box on the roof using 10/2 UV round wire from AM Solar. After lots of research decided the best overall option was to wire the panels in parallel. Yes, higher voltages with series wiring has advantages. On the other hand with series wired panels a shaded panel impairs the entire string. The wiring from the combiner box to the charge controller is 4/2 wire again from AM Solar.

    Considered two different options for running the wire down from the roof, a sewer vent pipe or a hole through the roof and down a wall cavity. While the sewer vent pipe option seemed like a reasonable idea, it just doesn't feel right. I know, an emotional decision that I can't logically explain. On the other hand drilling a hole in the roof and hoping I hit the wall cavity was scary. In the end I went with the hole in the roof into a wall cavity.

    The 397TH has a second bath at the front of the garage and gaining access to a wall cavity is fairly easy, remove a panel below the sink. The bad news is it is a long way to the roof with no practical way of drilling from the bottom up. The hole has to start from the roof and drill down. From the roof using the vent pipe as locator making the hole was a two step operation. First drill through the roof and the ceiling with a long 1/8 inch drill bit, run inside and look for unwanted holes. Always easier to hide/patch/coverup a small hole. Once I was sure the initial hole was in the correct location a 1 inch hole was made using a hole saw. The 4/2 wire was then pulled to the roof using an electricians fish tape.

    The 4/2 wire pulled up from the rear bathroom

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Wiring through Roof.jpg 
Views:	206 
Size:	105.0 KB 
ID:	5748

    Panels and combiner box

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Installed Panels.jpg 
Views:	218 
Size:	94.6 KB 
ID:	5749

    The 120 volt challenge or opportunity:

    The Victron inverter when shore or generator power is available can pass through up to 50 amps. Unfortunately this is a single 50 amp leg, unlike the double 50 amp legs to the coach. If the inverter could handle two 50amp legs the wiring would have been fairly simple, place the inverter between the transfer switch and the electrical panel.

    This involved:
    • Re-purposing the breaker slot and replacing the breaker for the original converter which would no longer be need.
    • Running 6/2 with ground from the existing panel to the inverter
    • Adding a new sub panel in the basement storage area
    • Running a 6/2 with ground from the inverter to the new sub panel
    • Moving the 120 volt circuits to be available when running on solar/batteries from the original panel to the sub panel


    New sub panel in basement storage area

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sub panel.jpg 
Views:	198 
Size:	85.7 KB 
ID:	5750

    The 12 volt challenge

    With the batteries now towards the rear of the coach and the 12 volt connections in the front compartment this meant an almost 35 foot positive wire. What size of wire is needed? What is the current draw? When the slides or jacks are running about 50 amps. How much does the generator need to for starting? Lots of searching, looks like 50 - 100 amps, with no definitive answer. Assuming 100amps and a 3% loss went with 2/0 cable.

    Running the Heavy Cables

    Running the two 6/2 with ground and the 2/0 cable from the rear to the front of the coach wasn't technically hard, just time consuming. Drop a portion of the underbelly pull the cables through, tie the cables up, refasten the underbelling and repeat until done. The only gotcha on this part of the project was having to remove the wheels from a triple axle trailer.

    As I've ran out of time today, I will post more pictures and details later.

    Completed install with battery monitor and controls

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	complete.jpg 
Views:	190 
Size:	90.1 KB 
ID:	5751
    I think we met you in the LTVA in Quartzsite last year. I am installing the solar and Batteries up next to the gen. I have 6 lead acid battery up there right now but are replacing them lithium before I install the system, it is a lot easier up front. I will run the wires down through the little shelf in the master bed room on the left side of the bed( I already have three wires coming down though there now) I plan on installing a 1-1/2" pipe from the roof, with a 6"x 6" J box on the roof. All the elec. connection are at that end of the trailer less big wire, and I think it will be lot easier. I have been running with the 6 lead acid batteries for the last year and the RZR in the garage. With the liter lithium I think it may litten up the pin weight, even with the other equipment.

Similar Threads

  1. 2017 297 RSTS Solar Installation
    By TucsonJim in forum Solar Systems and Generators
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 04-26-2019, 04:16 PM
  2. Will Solar installation on roof void the warranty?
    By Bearii in forum General Tech Topics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-30-2017, 04:17 PM
  3. 2800BH Solar Installation
    By Utahcampers in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-17-2017, 08:25 AM
  4. My Solar Installation
    By Paul & Deb in forum Mods and DIY
    Replies: 132
    Last Post: 03-15-2017, 07:39 PM
  5. Solar Panel Roof Installation
    By RetiredVagabond in forum General Tech Topics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-11-2014, 08:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

DISCLAIMER:This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Grand Design RV, LLC or any of its affiliates. This is an independent site.