Reflection 150 series with tool box.

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Well ya know, Timbrens (and airbags) add at least 5,000 pounds more payload capacity.

I go by what’s on the box from Amazon, not the door sticker.

8 )




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[MidwestCamper]

Wrong. Directly from Timbren's FAQs:

Q. CAN I HAUL MORE WEIGHT ON MY TRUCK IF I INSTALL TIMBREN’S SES KIT?

A. You cannot exceed the manufacturer’s axle rating or GVW rating of the vehicle. A Timbren suspension enhancement system will greatly enhance the performance of a heavily-loaded vehicle by adding to the spring rate. You can expect reduced sag, and improved roll stability.

Howard,
This is really good information where the sales folks that talk about adding helper springs and other load enhancing items to increase load capacity of the truck is misleading. It also is a turn off for those that automatically receive suggestions to get an expensive overkill truck.
The way I like to size a trailer to the truck is to ignore the tongue weight from the trailer manufacturer and go by the trailers max GVW and realistic max tongue weights. For instance, for TT go by trailer GVW and factor in 15% tongue weight. For fifth wheels, use max GVW and factor in 25% tongue weight. Then add in whatever is added to the truck. I also took a more conservative approach and based my trailer choice to 80% towing capacity of the truck when I purchased my 2600RB.

[howson]

Howard,
This is really good information where the sales folks that talk about adding helper springs and other load enhancing items to increase load capacity of the truck is misleading. It also is a turn off for those that automatically receive suggestions to get an expensive overkill truck.
The way I like to size a trailer to the truck is to ignore the tongue weight from the trailer manufacturer and go by the trailers max GVW and realistic max tongue weights. For instance, for TT go by trailer GVW and factor in 15% tongue weight. For fifth wheels, use max GVW and factor in 25% tongue weight. Then add in whatever is added to the truck. I also took a more conservative approach and based my trailer choice to 80% towing capacity of the truck when I purchased my 2600RB.

Right-sizing the TV and trailer combination may be the toughest part of the purchase process and most confusing to newbies. I got so much bad information from salespeople! Confusing as all get out trying to sort through what is fact and what is not. Heck, I thought I'd done my homework and still got the truck part wrong the first time. That's why IMHO it is important that each individual needs to learn how to calculate for themselves their setup's limits. Then there's the variables of where the trailer will be towed and how often--not something that translates easily into an equation.

[MidwestCamper]

Right-sizing the TV and trailer combination may be the toughest part of the purchase process and most confusing to newbies. I got so much bad information from salespeople! Confusing as all get out trying to sort through what is fact and what is not. Heck, I thought I'd done my homework and still got the truck part wrong the first time. That's why IMHO it is important that each individual needs to learn how to calculate for themselves their setup's limits. Then there's the variables of where the trailer will be towed and how often--not something that translates easily into an equation.

Howard,
Ignoring the trailer manufactures advertised tongue weight and using the max GVW of the trailer at max tongue weight of 15% (for TT) would have put you in the truck you are in today. Demographics does play a role for a "nice to have" but there is never a good case in loading a truck beyond the yellow tag specifications where all trucks today are SAE certified to tow within the limits listed there. The way I see it, the highly misleading factory advertised tongue weight drives all the confusion.

[Chiefblueman]

Howard,
This is really good information where the sales folks that talk about adding helper springs and other load enhancing items to increase load capacity of the truck is misleading. It also is a turn off for those that automatically receive suggestions to get an expensive overkill truck.
The way I like to size a trailer to the truck is to ignore the tongue weight from the trailer manufacturer and go by the trailers max GVW and realistic max tongue weights. For instance, for TT go by trailer GVW and factor in 15% tongue weight. For fifth wheels, use max GVW and factor in 25% tongue weight. Then add in whatever is added to the truck. I also took a more conservative approach and based my trailer choice to 80% towing capacity of the truck when I purchased my 2600RB.

It's a shame this basic approach isn't used by salespeople everywhere. Establish the payload of the truck, not what you want it to be or you read in a brochure. Pick a trailer. Do some basic calcs as described by Jim. If all these fit usually your gcvwr will take care of itself. IMO this and the ubiquitous "tow capacity" are the last things to check. I just cringe when someone says "my truck is rated to tow One Billion Pounds" or some such. At least if the consumer is aware that real truck payload and realistic tongue/pin weights is where to start they can make an informed decision to stick by the rules or go over.

Last year at an RV show I overheard (eavesdropped) a Grand Design sales person tell a gentleman his 3/4 ton diesel Ford would handle a Solitude 380FL-R just fine. Things like that make it hard for the uninformed to make good decisions.

[Manaqua1]

Hey guys. Indulge my curiosity for second. Can tongue weight be dependent on how you load the trailer? ie: if I move things from the front of the trailer and put them in totes on the back end, past the axle, will that not decrease some of the tongue weight? I know we've gotten off topic from the original thread, but thanks in advance for everything.

[howson]

Hey guys. Indulge my curiosity for second. Can tongue weight be dependent on how you load the trailer? ie: if I move things from the front of the trailer and put them in totes on the back end, past the axle, will that not decrease some of the tongue weight? I know we've gotten off topic from the original thread, but thanks in advance for everything.

Absolutely. That's why many of us have a Sherline tongue scale.

You may find this thread interesting: https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...-vs-Power-Jack

[SouthTX]

Howard,
Ignoring the trailer manufactures advertised tongue weight and using the max GVW of the trailer at max tongue weight of 15% (for TT) would have put you in the truck you are in today. Demographics does play a role for a "nice to have" but there is never a good case in loading a truck beyond the yellow tag specifications where all trucks today are SAE certified to tow within the limits listed there. The way I see it, the highly misleading factory advertised tongue weight drives all the confusion.

Jim - I was in total agreement with you and glad someone was saying it so succinctly until you mentioned the yellow tag. The yellow tag GVWR MAY (or may not) be artificially set for marketing/licensing/registration purposes rather than to reflect material (axle, suspension, tires, etc) limitations. OTOH, axle rating is the max loading for that axle.

Sorry for the interruption - now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[MidwestCamper]

Jim - I was in total agreement with you and glad someone was saying it so succinctly until you mentioned the yellow tag. The yellow tag GVWR MAY (or may not) be artificially set for marketing/licensing/registration purposes rather than to reflect material (axle, suspension, tires, etc) limitations. OTOH, axle rating is the max loading for that axle.

Sorry for the interruption - now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

SouthTX,

I may not be following you but I'm referring to the yellow tag on the camper. Then make certain the truck can handle this loading. The GVW on my Imagine is 6995 lbs. I go by this number and factor in 15% for max tongue weight which would be around 1049 lbs. I believe the advertised tongue weight on my Imagine was under 600lbs. Its been awhile. On my heaviest loading (ready to camp) with full water I'm at around 14%. My trucks payload is 1719 lbs with 3950 lb axles. I already owned the truck in my case but I used this same method in choosing a trailer that I could comfortably handle. When the wife began shopping I told her no higher than 7K GVW NOT the UVW. I'm not aware of the vehicle yellow tag not being accurate, where this would open up manufacturers to serious liability. The trailer GVW? These values from what I'm seeing are overrated IMO and can be seen in the MY19 2600RB moving up to 4400 lb axles and leaving the rest of us with 3500lb axles with floor contact, bent springs and axles. Did I address your concern?

[SouthTX]

SouthTX,

I may not be following you but I'm referring to the yellow tag on the camper. Then make certain the truck can handle this loading. The GVW on my Imagine is 6995 lbs. I go by this number and factor in 15% for max tongue weight which would be around 1049 lbs. I believe the advertised tongue weight on my Imagine was under 600lbs. Its been awhile. On my heaviest loading (ready to camp) with full water I'm at around 14%. My trucks payload is 1719 lbs with 3950 lb axles. I already owned the truck in my case but I used this same method in choosing a trailer that I could comfortably handle. When the wife began shopping I told her no higher than 7K GVW NOT the UVW. I'm not aware of the vehicle yellow tag not being accurate, where this would open up manufacturers to serious liability. The trailer GVW? These values from what I'm seeing are overrated IMO and can be seen in the MY19 2600RB moving up to 4400 lb axles and leaving the rest of us with 3500lb axles with floor contact, bent springs and axles. Did I address your concern?

First, I totally agree with your suggestion to select a TV based on actual tongue/pin weight, but I think we need to be very clear about the yellow sticker payload on both the RV and TV.

I just want to be very clear what the yellow sticker GVWR really is so that people new to RV'ing won't think TV payload - and choice of RV - is restricted by the yellow door sticker. The manufacturer can, within reason, adjust this GVWR weight for marketing purposes. For instance, I understand that Massachutes considers a truck over 10,000 as commercial so Ford offers the same F250 with a GVWR of 10,000 or 9,900. My F350 can be ordered with a GVWR or 10,000 or 11,500. Peruse the truck manufacturers' web pages and you'll find all sorts of idiosyncrasies such as this. Some states base registration cost on GVWR, others base license requirements on it. In my state of Texas, I can pull my 13,995 fifth wheel with my SRW F350 with a class c (car) drivers license. Rate both vehicles on their actual axle weights and the total would likely be greater than 26,000 and a class A non-commercial license would be required.

You won't find a clear explanation of this anywhere. The manufacturer is not going to overtly state that they offer various GVWR's to allow buyers to evade taxes, but ask anyone who runs a fleet of trucks and they'll give you a wink. Think about it, if this isn't true, then why is there another door sticker that lists gross axle weight ratings that total greater than GVWR.

As RV'ers and non-commercial operators, members of this forum are highly unlikely to be scaled so this little GVWR game doesn't affect us, but RV'ers need to know this bit of trivia to avoid buying to much truck because a salesman is showing them one with an artificially low GVWR. By the same token, RV'ers do need to know when they need to upgrade their drivers license.

Probably more than you wanted to know. Time to pop a bowl of popcorn and sit back.