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Thread: Pex Hose vs Soft Hose Update
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05-22-2019, 08:43 AM #31
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We have a 2014 303 that has the Kantleak panel. The only problem we have had with our water was the plastic valves on the Kantleak panel. Since we replaced them with brass things have been good.
Marcy & Gary
2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
2003 F350 - retired
Michigan
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05-22-2019, 08:47 AM #32
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05-22-2019, 09:18 AM #33
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Would love to see how you set it up via pics. I feel that is what I would like to do, as it is a snaked mess under there with so many connections just begging to fail.
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05-22-2019, 09:19 AM #34
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Shark bite fittings are designed for hard pex line (and copper plumbing pipe). I have used them with good results. I have also had issues, but found it was my installation error in not seating the pipe in the fitting enough. If you do use the fittings be sure to get the release tool for each size you have. If you don't have the tool there is no way to get the fitting off. So far the only leak I have had was at the water pump - cracked inlet screen.
On edit - added copper pipeLast edited by powerscol; 05-22-2019 at 10:36 AM.
2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar
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05-22-2019, 09:28 AM #35
See the attachment to post 1 on this thread for pictures of the rebuild of my plumbing system. https://www.mygrandrv.com/fo...968#post171968 The rest of the thread has some other great ideas too.
RobCate & Rob
2015 Reflection 303RLS
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05-22-2019, 09:41 AM #36
If you want to help reduce leaks, make sure you install a water pressure regulator EVERY time you hook your coach up to city water. You may check the pressure and find it's only 35psi when you hook up. But late at night, that pressure may spike to 80psi or higher. All it takes is one high pressure event to start the chain of damage leading to failure.
I know it sounds ludicrous to not use the systems as intended. But if you really want to ensure that you never have serious water damage, don't use the fresh water connection for anything other than filling your fresh water tank. Then when you need water, turn on the pump. Turn it off when you're done.
If you do elect to use the fresh water connection for your water, install a water leak monitor and NEVER leave the supply turned on when you are away from your coach.
Jim
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05-22-2019, 09:56 AM #37
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Exactly what I do, in addition to turning off the hot water heater and pulling in the awnings. 10-15 seconds of preventative action is well worth the peace of mind when I am away from the camper.
But the individual that revived this thread with their rant has a point (which I've agreed with on many occasions)--it is ludicrous that GD hasn't engineered this problem out of their trailers. They CAN do it if they CHOOSE to do it. Why don't they? Because, as this thread documents, "they always done it that way".
Elkhart would be in for a world of hurt if manufacturers who have learned about constant quality improvement while REDUCING costs got into the recreational vehicle business...2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)
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05-22-2019, 10:00 AM #38
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I consider myself more than a half-****** maintenance person and pex is easy, if you can get to it. But, when you combine it with a soft braided hose that swells, it is difficult to repair. I ended up changing out a pex line with a quick connect to extend the line because I had to cut the soft hose back enough to get passed the swelling of the line in order to fit the pex crimp ring over it. It barely fit, and had to ply it over the hose, crimped it and fixed. I wanted to change the shower lines to pex, and was going to except GD ran the soft braided lines under the shower pan and down through the floor right next to the shower pan drain. The lines would not pull out. Grand Design is allowing me to hire a plumber to correct this obvious weakness, because those soft lines will eventually fail again.
1. Do I think papermakermd should replace all of his plumbing immediately? No, of course not. Do I think he should be on alert to leaks? No question. My first leak came after the first time I moved the 5th wheel. If you read through this forum, leaks are pretty common--and that's not okay as far as I am concerned. I will reiterate that I have been an RVer for while and I have never had the problems I have had with GD, and I am not going to sugar coat it. Just because GD customer service responds and works with the customer doesn't mean we should enable the company to continue the bad practice, bad design and frankly poor installation. I think whoever installed the lines did not crimp the lines appropriately. If a company can't get the plumbing correct in an RV, what good is it?
2. Do I believe GD screwed up with the plumbing? Yes. They should have kept it simple. Some of the design flaws make it difficult for the owner to navigate a fix on their own--and that is straight up ridiculous. Running waterlines under the shower pan so tightly is yet another weak point that is likely to fail.
3. GD customer service told me yesterday they have no detailed schematics for plumbing and electrical in these rigs. That is straight up crazy. When I was discussing replacing the shower lines and asking them how the lines are run, they couldn't tell me anything other than there must have been a reason for them to run soft lines. Well, there was a reason. Pex lines would not run under a shower pan.
4. GD customer service also told me yesterday that soft lines should not be running off the kitchen or shower areas (hence the design must have come into play on the shower lines).
5. The nautilus system on my rig has a tangled mess of both pex and soft lines.
6. In the corner, way in the back, under the toilet, pex is squared off following the walls around. If that fails, I cant imagine what will have to be done to replace it. I would literally have to climb over the water pump, a tangled web of electrical line, Toilet PVC, etc. You get the point.
7. Saying these are easy fixes is naive, at best, and a downright lie, at worst.
8. It's not a simple design. It's a scary design that is destined for problems.
9. I had GD agree to allow me to have the soft hoses replaced with pex. I will begin the process of replace crimped pex with quick connects as well. It is simply too difficult to crimp pex at these awkward angles to make repairs.
10. The choice of taking the rig to a dealer should be squashed. Most of these dealers are horrific. You are better off finding a solid mobile guy who knows what they are doing, unless you have a proven dealer service department. I have tried many in CA with no luck. I do, however, have a great mobile guy. He is currently out of my reach, but I may move the fifth wheel and bring it to him for a week long fix it party courtesy of GD. He is that good. I am to get estimates.
11. All I can say is Thank God GD is working with me, otherwise I would hire a lawyer. These rigs have problems and people need to know it, understand it and base their decisions to buy on that knowledge. GD is not the best in the industry. Their beautiful layouts and attempt to bring a more modern approach to the RV world has put them ahead of that game, but the "design in GD" is not grand when it comes to the bones of the rig. They need to improve those areas. Period. Forums like this one need to press them hard on that point--IMHO.
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05-22-2019, 10:58 AM #39
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No one from GD has participated on this forum for what, 2 years or more? They don’t care what our little group has to say. We have to rely on each other to get things fixed. Fortunately for us, we have a lot of very talented and imaginative members here.
From what I’ve see, FB is where one seems to get the attention of
GD however GD has done a good job influencing the different FB GD centric group administrators in kicking off owners who are too vociferous in their complaints.2022 Imagine XLS 22MLE
Sold: 2015 27RL
2016 Ram 3500 Crewcab Cummins SRW
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05-22-2019, 11:14 AM #40
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Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. While I agree that Grand Design could improve their manufacturing (like cleaning up the rats nest behind the basement wall), they are not alone in how they build their products. Name another RV manufacturer that builds a better RV at the same price point - or anything close to it. You commented that Grand Design won't provide detailed schematics for plumbing and electrical. Does any other manufacturer do this? If plumbing fails behind the walls of another RV, would it be easier to fix than a Grand Design? Did you compare how Grand Design builds their RV's to other manufacturers during your research phase of shopping before you bought your Grand Design?
I've owned four RV's in my lifetime from three manufacturers and all of them were built basically the same way. Cheap components and sloppy assembly. Do I like that? Heck no. But, if you want a towable RV for under $250,000, that's the price you pay as a consumer. You can choose not to buy an RV because of this or you can buy an RV knowing issues will likely arise and deal with them when they do. But, to expect others on this forum to press Grand Design hard about something most of us accept as part of the RV lifestyle is not reasonable.
I'm not trying to stir the pot here but the issues you bring up are not Grand Design specific. They are industry-wide. Until a manufacturer starts building RV's a different way and can do so profitably at an affordable price point, the RV industry won't change because there is no real competition.
I hope your repairs are done to your satisfaction and you get many years of enjoyment out of your RV. Good luck!Brian & Kellie
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch
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