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  1. #1
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Electrical Mod -- Feedback Requested

    Edit (30 Apr 19): See post #195 for a summary of this thread.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The thread I read today by Dopperud motivated me to document where I'm at in my research. I started with just wanting to power my refrigerator (see this thread) but the requirements have expanded since then. (DMB's post showing him camping at a non-powered site in a nice campground got me thinking!) I didn't want to hijack Dopperud's thread so I'm starting a new one.

    First let me frame the expectations for the system I am contemplating.
    a) It will power the RV refrigerator using electricity while towing.
    b) It will provide a night's worth of power if we stop at a Harvest Host type of facility. ("boondock")
    c) Should I go from a location with no shore power to another no shore power location I want the ability to recharge the batteries from the truck and/or portable generator. (Generator will run off propane so there's no need to carry a third type of fuel with me.)

    1) The current inverter I'm considering is a Victron Multiplus 12V/3000. I like the idea of the PowerAssist feature.

    2) I am not sure where the buck-boost will tie into this system. I'll have to email Bay Marine Supply and ask them. I'm hoping the output of the Buck-Boost will parallel the output of the MPPT solar controller without the need for a manual switch.

    3) Will I have to use the generator to run the 13.5k bedroom air conditioner? Having a/c on a hot summer night is absolutely a requirement. (Call me spoiled...)

    4) These systems are expensive. Did anyone get an insurance rider to cover it? Something tells me Progressive won't cover this upgrade on a standard policy should I experience a total loss.

    Below is a schematic of what I'm considering. The solar part is grayed out as that will be added later. (Maybe.)

    As always, appreciate any and all thoughtful critiques--especially if I'm missing something important! I won't be tackling this until sometime in April.

    -Howard

    Last edited by howson; 04-30-2019 at 01:42 PM.
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
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  2. #2
    Site Sponsor Cate&Rob's Avatar
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    Hi Howard,

    This looks like a very comprehensive (and expensive!) project.

    Victron makes quality stuff and has good tech support. They are designing and building for offshore marine expectations . . . much more stringent than anything in the towable RV world.

    My only suggestion is, (for the price of battery switches) put one on each individual battery. If you have a battery problem, it is usually just one and figuring out which one, in a hardwired bank, is a PITA . . . unless you can individually add in or take out each battery.

    I do this on my boat where I have two banks of three lead acid deep cycle 12V batteries. One bank shown in the attached, is primarily for running the 120VAC fridge through an inverter (and powers the high current draw anchor windlass) Sometimes, I will want to "reserve" one battery at 100% state of charge for an emergency. This is as simple as turning off one of the individual switches when the bank is fully charged. If you have two pairs of 6V batteries, this same thing can be accomplished with a single 1/2/both/off battery switch.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fridge Bank.pdf  
    Last edited by Cate&Rob; 02-10-2019 at 09:16 AM.
    Cate & Rob
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by howson View Post
    The thread I read today by Dopperud motivated me to document where I'm at in my research. I started with just wanting to power my refrigerator (see this thread) but the requirements have expanded since then. (DMB's post showing him camping at a non-powered site in a nice campground got me thinking!) I didn't want to hijack Dopperud's thread so I'm starting a new one.

    First let me frame the expectations for the system I am contemplating.
    a) It will power the RV refrigerator using electricity while towing.
    b) It will provide a night's worth of power if we stop at a Harvest Host type of facility. ("boondock")
    c) Should I go from a location with no shore power to another no shore power location I want the ability to recharge the batteries from the truck and/or portable generator. (Generator will run off propane so there's no need to carry a third type of fuel with me.)

    1) The current inverter I'm considering is a Victron Multiplus 12V/3000. I like the idea of the PowerAssist feature.

    2) I am not sure where the buck-boost will tie into this system. I'll have to email Bay Marine Supply and ask them. I'm hoping the output of the Buck-Boost will parallel the output of the MPPT solar controller without the need for a manual switch.

    3) Will I have to use the generator to run the 13.5k bedroom air conditioner? Having a/c on a hot summer night is absolutely a requirement. (Call me spoiled...)

    4) These systems are expensive. Did anyone get an insurance rider to cover it? Something tells me Progressive won't cover this upgrade on a standard policy should I experience a total loss.

    Below is a schematic of what I'm considering. The solar part is grayed out as that will be added later. (Maybe.)

    As always, appreciate any and all thoughtful critiques--especially if I'm missing something important! I won't be tackling this until sometime in April.

    -Howard


    You seem to be on the right track, but I see a couple of things that I question.

    How many inputs power leads can come in on your inverter? 50A power has 2 hots, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. Most larger inverters can pass through 50A, but only have enough inputs for 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. Which is why I had to make a power distribution block and a transfer switch.

    You have plenty of battery power in your system, but you truck's charging would be negligible at best, maybe 15A and while I haven't tested, I would imagine you're pulling 40-50A to run the refrigerator. You would need to run a generator when you arrive to top off the batteries. A solar system that will be charging while your drive is really the only way I can see to stay on top of usage.

    You can run your A/C with your inverter and a soft start, but I you will not make it through the night with 400A/Hr of batteries. I think that it draws about 70A while running.

    Interesting question about the insurance, I am renewing this week and will ask.

    Dave
    2017 F350 4x4 6.7 Turbo Diesel
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  4. #4
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopperud View Post
    How many inputs power leads can come in on your inverter? 50A power has 2 hots, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. Most larger inverters can pass through 50A, but only have enough inputs for 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. Which is why I had to make a power distribution block and a transfer switch.
    Of course you're right--RV 50A service has two distinct 120Vac lines providing 50A each. (My hard-wired Progressive EMS-50 monitor screen shows "L1=xA" and "L2=xA" when the trailer is plugged in.)

    What you're saying is with the inverter only one of the shore power 50A lines can be used? More troubling is does that mean there is only one inverter output ac line to the RV's distribution panel? In other words, when in inverter mode (ac provided by the batteries) only the c/b's tied into that one output line have power, the other c/b's (tied into the second 50A ac line) do not.

    Very obvious now that you point it out, but I'd completely overlooked that issue. Now all the conversation about a sub-panel, load balancing, and the rest (in other threads) is starting to make sense. I need to go back and look at your drawing again.

    Thanks, Dave, for the note.
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
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  5. #5
    Big Traveler SouthTX's Avatar
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    Howard, I'm on a tablet and can't search for it, now, but klenger posted great schematic drawings and photos of his system that I shamelessly copied. He used a separate ATS and avoided the subpanel hassle. You should take a look at what he did.
    John and Jean
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  6. #6
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthTX View Post
    Howard, I'm on a tablet and can't search for it, now, but klenger posted great schematic drawings and photos of his system that I shamelessly copied. He used a separate ATS and avoided the subpanel hassle. You should take a look at what he did.
    I downloaded all of his website info, so I'll dig it up and look at it again. Thanks! (This is why I'm taking my time during the design phase--I want to get it right the first time.)
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
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  7. #7
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    Howard,

    As far as the insurance is concerned; I sent my agent an itemized list and reciepts to include all of my ugrades, they are now included on my policy.

    Instead of 4 batteries, why don't you consider 2 200 amp hour batteries and save the space?

    Red
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  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper
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    Look like a nice system you have planned.

    In point 3 you ask about running AC, probably not going to happen off of a 3000 Watt inverter. Also will kill the batteries rather quickly. I think you will need to use your generator for this.

    You will need to remove the converter from the circuit when running off of the inverter, otherwise you will be charging the batteries from the batteries. I did this by installing a automatic transfer switch and feeding the converter directly from the shore power side of the switch. If you do this, be sure to use the correct gauge wire as you will be feeding the converter from a 50 Amp or 30 Amp circuit.

    Make sure you mount the inverter as close to the batteries as possible to minimize cable runs. For you 12 volt connections, you can use welding cable as it comes in large sizes and has finer wire which makes it more flexible and easier to work with.

    DAN
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  9. #9
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    I had to run over to the rig to check on a couple of things and as a test I ran the fridge and A/C on the batteries to see what kind of load the pull:

    Fridge - 35 Amps while running. Remember, if it is cold to start, it will only run part time, so you should be OK as long as you have a replenishment plan when you arrive.

    A/C - 80 Amps. With your four batteries you will be flat in less than 5 hours.

    Dave
    2017 F350 4x4 6.7 Turbo Diesel
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  10. #10
    Long Hauler howson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopperud View Post
    A/C - 80 Amps. With your four batteries you will be flat in less than 5 hours.
    Well dang. The lure of having options on where I can park for the night is alluring, but without a/c in the summer it will be miserable sleeping almost everywhere except high in the Rockies. (Just thinking about camping near Rocky Mountain National Park makes me smile.) I'll need to ponder my expectations from the system more to ensure the financial outlay has the expected ROI.

    Really appreciate your insights and help, Dave.

    -Howard
    2017 Ford F-350 DRW 6.7L Platinum
    2019 315RLTS (purchased 16 Jul 18 from Campers Inn RV in Byron, GA)

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